Author: Uri Blass
Date: 23:14:46 09/10/01
Go up one level in this thread
On September 10, 2001 at 22:26:45, Robert Hyatt wrote: >On September 10, 2001 at 17:29:06, Uri Blass wrote: > >>On September 10, 2001 at 16:34:37, Robert Hyatt wrote: >> >>>On September 10, 2001 at 16:06:40, Uri Blass wrote: >>> >>>>On September 10, 2001 at 15:44:05, Robert Hyatt wrote: >>>> >>>>>On September 10, 2001 at 15:08:38, Uri Blass wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>the game was Deep thought's game and not Deeper blue's game so it was not >>>>>>200Xfaster than yours >>>>> >>>>>At that event, we were probably running on a Cray XMP I would guess. I will >>>>>try to look at my old tournament booklets to see exactly what we used. If >>>>>it was an XMP, which is likely, then we were doing maybe 80K nodes per >>>>>second if we were lucky. >>>> >>>>I thought that Cray blitz could search 7M nodes per second. >>> >>> >>>This was on 1995 hardware (the T932). The game vs deep thought was well prior >>>to that hardware if I recall correctly. I am trying to dig thru a really thick >>>file to see if I can find out what we were using for that event. But it >>>definitely was not a T90 as we never played on a T90 in any competition. The >>>best hardware we used was a C90 which could hit about 500K nodes per second >>>peak. >>> >>> >>> >>> >>>>If it is not the case then I do not understand the reason that you believe that >>>>cray blitz (7M nodes per second) was weaker than Deep thought. >>> >>>I don't compare 7M cray blitz to DT. the 7M CB was in the same time-frame >>>as the DB/DB2 machines. And should be compared to them. >> >>I remember that one of your claims in order to convince people that Deep thought >>was strong was the fact that it defeated Cray blitz when Cray blitz is better >>than Crafty based on your games. >> >>If the real Cray blitz with 7M per second was never used in tournaments then >>the fact that Deep thought beated Cray blitz is not relevant >> >>> >>> >>> > >Ok.. Please pay careful attention for a few minutes. > >DT beat Cray Blitz on the best cray hardware available at the time. The last >time we played them we were running on a C90 at something around 1-2M nodes >per second. The statement that you and many others have made is "programs >of the 1980's and early 1990's are nowhere near today's programs, regardless >of how fast they go. I simply ran Cray Blitz on a current Cray, which happens >to be maybe 3x faster than the last machine DT beat us on. If you think a >factor of 3 is huge to a program with a branching factor of 5+, then you are >mistaken. And if you think that there is no way to draw conclusions based on >this match, you are mistaken again. The problem is that the last time is only one game and Cray blitz has bugs at least in part of the games. > >If Cray Blitz was just a "fast/dumb program" then that extra speed would make >little difference, in theory. I did not say that Cray blitz was only fast/dumb program but I guess that at the time they did only 80 knodes per second they were not better than Deep thought. When I thought that cray blitz was better than Deep thought I thought about the 7M per second. Deep Thought was very strong. Because Cray >Blitz was also very strong. I agree that it was strong relative to the opponents at that time. Against both humans and computers. It registered >the first win vs a chess master on record. It was strong relative to the opponents at that time but the comparison is with programs of today. Fritz3(p90) was also strong if you use results against humans and it achieved an IM norm on p90 when the best results of it was against the GM's when it had more problems against weaker opponents who bought it and prepared against it. >It registered the first win of an >"open section" tournament on record. It also won a couple of WCCC events along >the way. It's credentials are unimpeachable. That deep thought beat it at >every turn says something about them. I agree that they were better than their opponents at their time but they had to play only against inferior hardware and inferior software than the hardware and software of today(In their last tournament they had to play against p90 hardware and lost 1.5 points when in previous tournaments most of their opponents had inferior hardware than p90(Cray blitz's hardware at 1991 was better than p90 but only sligthly better and I am not sure if the software at that time was at the same level of the software of today). Uri
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