Author: Uri Blass
Date: 14:38:05 09/16/01
Go up one level in this thread
On September 16, 2001 at 16:30:27, Bruce Moreland wrote: >On September 16, 2001 at 16:15:32, Vincent Diepeveen wrote: > >>On September 16, 2001 at 00:36:22, Bruce Moreland wrote: >> >>>Vincent emailed me and asked me to run these. I ran them on a quad 450 Xeon. >>> >>>[D]8/p4bpk/7p/3rq3/3Npp2/PPQ3P1/3R1PKP/8 w - - 0 1 >>> >>>I get gxf4 until ply 10, after which there is a switch to b4, which is a bad >>>move. This fails low to -3.88 in ply 11, and gxf4 comes back with a score of >>>-2.48. >>> >>>Later in ply 11, f3 pops up with a score of -2.33. >>> >>>Up to here takes 89 seconds. >>> >>>f3 sticks until ply 14, at which point if fails low to -4.24, and gxf4 comes >>>back with a score of -3.21, resolving after about 1/2 hour. >>> >>>In ply 15, gxf4 fails low again, and the hour ended with no resolution. It was >>><= -3.46. >>> >>>[D]8/p4bpk/7p/3rq3/3Npp2/PPQ2PP1/3R2KP/8 b - - 0 1 >>> >>>In this one, I have exf3+, with a score of +2.35 in ply 10. After 16 seconds, >>>in ply 10, it finds Bh5, failing high to +2.80. >>> >>>Ply 11 was uneventful, but in ply 12, Bh5 failed high to +4.24. >>> >>>The score creeps up slightly, and the last score I got in the hour was +4.99, >>>ply 15, after about 45 minutes. >>> >>>I'll run the first one again all night and see what happens. >>> >>>bruce >> >>thanks! >> >>It confirms already what i suspected. f3 is losing >>way harder than alternatives! >> >>I do not understand why ferret needs a ply more to get -4.24 for f3 >>than when after f3 is getting played. Possible to shine any light onto >>this? > >I don't see that you can draw that conclusion at all, especially in light of >this: > > ply milliseconds score line >no 17 27657860 -433 -1221224784 gxf4 Qxf4 Kh1 Rh5 f3 exf3 Nxf3 Rh3 Rf2 > Bd5 Rg2 g5 Qd3+ Qe4 Qxe4+ Bxe4 Nd2 Bxg2+ > Kxg2 Rd3 Ne4 Rxb3 a4 Rb4 Nc5 Rb2+ Kg3 > -- >no 17 41753610 -499 666953819 gxf4 Qxf4 f3 Bh5 Kf1 e3 Re2 Rxd4 Rxe3 > Rd1+ Re1 Qxf3+ Qxf3 Bxf3 Rxd1 Bxd1 b4 Kg6 > Kf2 Bc2 Ke3 Kf5 b5 >no 17 50832840 -494 -1178700567 f3 Bh5 g4 e3 Rd1 Bg6 Qc4 e2 Re1 Rxd4 Qxe2 > Qxe2+ Rxe2 Rd3 b4 Rxa3 h4 Bd3 Rd2 Rc3 Kh3 > >Column 4 (node count) is broken and should be ignored. > >gxf4 failed low to -4.99 in ply 17, and f3 overtook it at -4.94. So mine would >play f3 after 50,832 seconds. > >bruce I think the differece between f3 and gxf4 is a positional difference and we have no logfiles of dep blue from that game so it may be interesting to look at the following position [D]Rr6/5kp1/1qQb1p1p/1p1PpP2/1Pp1B3/2P4P/6P1/5K2 w - - 0 1 Here is Deeper blue logfile --------------------------------------- hash guess Rb7b8,Guessing Rb8 8(4) #[Ra6](156)[Ra6](156) 156^ T=0 ra8a6 Qb6c6q pd5c6Q Kf7g8 be4d5 Kg8h7 ra6a7 Rb8c8 ra7b7 Ph6h5 rb7b5P Kh7h6 rb5b7 Rc8c7 rb7b8 8(6) #[Ra6](128)########################## 128 T=3 ra8a6 Qb6c6q pd5c6Q Kf7g8 be4d5 Kg8h7 ra6a7 Rb8c8 ra7b7 Ph6h5 rb7b5P Kh7h6 rb5b7 Rc8c7 rb7b8 9(6) #[Ra6](128)###########<ch> 'rb8' [183 sec (main.c:1847)][cont]############### 128 T=10 ra8a6 Qb6c6q pd5c6Q Kf7g8 be4d5 Kg8h7 ra6a7 Rb8c8 ra7b7 Ph6h5 rb7b5P Kh7h6 rb5b7 Rc8c7 rb7b8 10(6) #[Ra6](158)[Ra6](158) 158^ T=17 ra8a6 Qb6c6q pd5c6Q Kf7g8 be4d5 Kg8h7 ra6a7 Rb8c8 ra7b7 Ph6h5 rb7b5P Kh7h6 rb5b7 Rc8c7 rb7b8 10(6) #[Ra6](158)########################## 158 T=34 ra8a6 Qb6c6q pd5c6Q Kf7g8 be4d5 Kg8h7 ra6a7 Rb8c8 ra7b7 Ph6h5 rb7b5P Kh7h6 rb5b7 Rc8c7 rb7b8 11(6) #[Ra6](156)########################## 156 T=99 ra8a6 Qb6c6q pd5c6Q Kf7g8 be4d5 Kg8h7 ra6a7 Rb8c8 ra7b7 Ph6h5 rb7b5P Kh7h6 rb5b7 Rc8c7 rb7b8 12(6) #[Ra6](162)[TIMEOUT] 162 T=192 ra8a6 Qb6c6q pd5c6Q Rb8c8 be4d5 Kf7e7 ra6a5 Bd6c7 ra5b5P Ke7d6 bd5f3 Kd6e7 rb5c5 Rc8a8 bf3d5 Ke7d6 You can see that the evaluation of Deeper blue at depth 12(6) was 1.62 pawn for white. I am interested to know the evaluation of Ferret at depth 18 in order to compare with deeper blue. It may be interesting to see also the evaluation of Ferret when you increase the value of pieces that are not pawns to 150% of their normal value(programs may find quickly that black gets 2 pawns for the piece after Ra6 Qe3 so in order to prevent finding Ra6 Qe3 for these reasons I suggest to increase the value of pieces that are not pawns) I ask for Ferret's evaluation at depth 18 because other programs do not use singular extensions. I suspect that Ferret can find Ra6 Qe3 in both cases at depth that is smaller than 18 and that it can also cahnges it's mind later to Qd7+ Uri
This page took 0 seconds to execute
Last modified: Thu, 15 Apr 21 08:11:13 -0700
Current Computer Chess Club Forums at Talkchess. This site by Sean Mintz.