Author: Ed Schröder
Date: 10:02:02 09/18/01
Go up one level in this thread
On September 18, 2001 at 12:22:20, Robert Hyatt wrote: >On September 18, 2001 at 10:53:39, Uri Blass wrote: > >>On September 18, 2001 at 10:45:15, José Carlos wrote: >> >>>On September 18, 2001 at 09:56:32, Ed Schröder wrote: >>> >>>>On September 18, 2001 at 09:40:26, Eduard Nemeth wrote: >>>> >>>>>First the game: >>>>> >>>>>[Event "TCh-YUG Herceg Novi YUG"] >>>>>[Site "?"] >>>>>[Date "2001.??.??"] >>>>>[Round "?"] >>>>>[White "Vukic,M"] >>>>>[Black "Marinkovic,I"] >>>>>[WhiteElo "2470"] >>>>>[BlackElo "2440"] >>>>>[ECO "A30"] >>>>>[Result "1-0"] >>>>> >>>>>1. Nf3 Nf6 2. g3 b6 3. Bg2 Bb7 4. O-O g6 5. c4 c5 6. Nc3 >>>>>Bg7 7. d4 cxd4 8. Qxd4 d6 9. Be3 Nbd7 10. Rac1 Rc8 11. b3 >>>>>O-O 12. Qd2 Nc5 13. Rfd1 Nce4 14. Nxe4 Nxe4 15. Qe1 Qd7 >>>>>16. Nd4 Nf6 17. Nf3 Ne4 18. Qb4 Nc3 19. Rd2 Ne4 20. Rd3 Nc5 >>>>>21. Rdd1 Rfd8 22. Ne1 h5 23. Bxc5 Rxc5 24. Nd3 Bxg2 >>>>>25. Kxg2 Qb7+ 26. f3 Rc7 27. Nf2 Rdc8 28. Qd2 b5 29. cxb5 >>>>>Qxb5 30. Kf1 Bc3 31. Qd3 Qa5 32. Rc2 Bf6 33. Rdc1 Rxc2 >>>>>34. Rxc2 Rxc2 35. Qxc2 d5 36. e3 Kg7 37. Nd3 e6 38. Ke2 Qa3 >>>>>39. f4 Kg8 40. h3 Kg7 41. Kf3 Qd6 42. g4 hxg4+ 43. hxg4 e5 >>>>>44. fxe5 Bxe5 45. Nxe5 Qxe5 46. Qc5 Qf6+ 47. Kg3 Qe5+ >>>>>48. Kh3 a6 49. Qd4 Kf6 50. b4 Ke6 51. a4 Qc7 52. g5 Qc2 >>>>>53. Qf6+ Kd7 54. Qxf7+ Kd6 55. Qf6+ Kd7 56. Qd4 Ke6 57. Kg3 >>>>>Qb1 58. Qb6+ Ke7 59. Qb7+ Kf8 60. Qxd5 Qxb4 61. Qd8+ Kg7 >>>>>62. Qd4+ 1-0 >>>>> >>>>>Position after move 61. Kg7: >>>>> >>>>>[D]3Q4/6k1/p5p1/6P1/Pq6/4P1K1/8/8 w - - >>>>> >>>>>After 62. Qf6+ is the win not easy. But after 62. Qd4+ is the game easy to win, >>>>>and the game end! For any programs ist the move Qd4+ not easy to find. >>>>> >>>>>:-( >>>> >>>> >>>>I am sure all Rebel programs find this instantly. A simple chess rule says: >>>>"one pawn up in a pawn ending wins". >>>> >>>>Ed >>> >>> Are you serious Ed? In this position, it's a clear win, but in most pawn >>>endgames, you have to calculate a lot, or otherwise know some rules (which names >>>I don't know how to translate from spanish to english) to figure if it's a win >>>or not. >>> >>> Maybe you were simply joking, and I didn't catch it... :) >> >>In most pawn endgames one pawn advantage is enough to win the game. >>It is not something that always happens but computer can safely evaluate >>+2 for positions with one pawn advnatage if they do not see a positional >>advantage for the side that has less pawns. >> >>Uri > > >I believe that if humans discover this "rule" in Rebel, it will die a slow >and painful death on ICC. I can create _many_ positions where the rule is >wrong. And if I can do it, GMs will do it. Happened to me many times. I >was burned by going into simple king and pawn endings where I was a pawn up, >but my opponent had a distant majority. And he would win. And win. The rule is valid for 90% of all positions and if not search will handle the remaining 10% close to zero. I don't give a +5 score for being a pawn up in a pawn ending but a reasonable score update enough to force a knight/bishop/rook/queen ending to a won pawn ending or to avoid to enter a lost pawn ending position. The rule in Rebel is there for more than 10-12 years and in that time I have seen only one exception. Ed
This page took 0 seconds to execute
Last modified: Thu, 15 Apr 21 08:11:13 -0700
Current Computer Chess Club Forums at Talkchess. This site by Sean Mintz.