Computer Chess Club Archives


Search

Terms

Messages

Subject: Re: Three hard positions

Author: Tony Werten

Date: 14:53:51 09/18/01

Go up one level in this thread


On September 18, 2001 at 17:08:43, Dann Corbit wrote:

>On September 18, 2001 at 13:44:33, Janosch Zwerensky wrote:
>
>>Hi everyone,
>>
>
>PFGA: EPD record: 2   ID: Janosch Zwerensky CCC #2
>              clearing hash tables
>              time surplus   0.00  time limit 60:00 (60:00)
>         nss  depth   time  score   variation (1)
>                9->  17.65   2.85   1. Rh6 Be3 2. Rh7+ Kb8 3. Kc6 Bd4 4.
>                                    Rd7 Be3 5. Rb7+ Kc8 6. Rd7
>               10    18.94   2.85   1. Rh6 Be3 2. Rh7+ Kb8 3. Kc6 Bd4 4.
>                                    Rd7 Be3 5. Rb7+ Kc8 6. Rc7+ Kb8 7.
>                                    Rd7
>               10->  23.47   2.85   1. Rh6 Be3 2. Rh7+ Kb8 3. Kc6 Bd4 4.
>                                    Rd7 Be3 5. Rb7+ Kc8 6. Rc7+ Kb8 7.
>                                    Rd7
>               11    24.96   2.85   1. Rh6 Be3 2. Rh7+ Kb8 3. Kc6 Bd4 4.
>                                    Rb7+ Ka8 5. Rd7 Be3 6. Kb5 Kb8 7. Kc6
>               11->  29.64   2.85   1. Rh6 Be3 2. Rh7+ Kb8 3. Kc6 Bd4 4.
>                                    Rb7+ Ka8 5. Rd7 Be3 6. Kb5 Kb8 7. Kc6
>               12    32.92   2.84   1. Rh6 Be3 2. Re6 Bd4 3. Re4 Bf2 4.
>                                    Rf4 Bg1 5. Rf7+ Kb8 6. Rf5 Kc7 7. Re5
>               12->  36.30   2.84   1. Rh6 Be3 2. Re6 Bd4 3. Re4 Bf2 4.
>                                    Rf4 Bg1 5. Rf7+ Kb8 6. Rf5 Kc7 7. Re5
>               13    38.29   2.84   1. Rh6 Be3 2. Re6 Bd4 3. Rc6+ Kd7 4.
>                                    Rc4 Be3 5. Re4 Bf2 6. Re2 Bg1 7. Rd2+
>                                    Kc7 8. Rd5
>               13->  44.83   2.84   1. Rh6 Be3 2. Re6 Bd4 3. Rc6+ Kd7 4.
>                                    Rc4 Be3 5. Re4 Bf2 6. Re2 Bg1 7. Rd2+
>                                    Kc7 8. Rd5
>               14    47.16   2.84   1. Rh6 Be3 2. Re6 Bd4 3. Rc6+ Kd7 4.
>                                    Rc4 Be3 5. Rh4 Bf2 6. Rh8 Kc7 7. Rf8
>                                    Bg1 8. Re8
>               14->  57.09   2.84   1. Rh6 Be3 2. Re6 Bd4 3. Rc6+ Kd7 4.
>                                    Rc4 Be3 5. Rh4 Bf2 6. Rh8 Kc7 7. Rf8
>                                    Bg1 8. Re8
>               15     1:00   2.84   1. Rh6 Be3 2. Re6 Bd4 3. Rc6+ Kb8 4.
>                                    Rc4 Be3 5. Rh4 Kb7 6. Rh3 Bg1 7. Rd3
>                                    Kb8 8. Rd8+ Kc7 9. Re8
>               15->   1:17   2.84   1. Rh6 Be3 2. Re6 Bd4 3. Rc6+ Kb8 4.
>                                    Rc4 Be3 5. Rh4 Kb7 6. Rh3 Bg1 7. Rd3
>                                    Kb8 8. Rd8+ Kc7 9. Re8
>               16     1:20   2.85   1. Rh6 Be3 2. Re6 Bd4 3. Rc6+ Kb8 4.
>                                    Rc4 Be3 5. Rh4 Kb7 6. Rh3 Bg1 7. Rd3
>                                    Kb8 8. Rd7 Be3 9. Kc6
>               16->   1:43   2.85   1. Rh6 Be3 2. Re6 Bd4 3. Rc6+ Kb8 4.
>                                    Rc4 Be3 5. Rh4 Kb7 6. Rh3 Bg1 7. Rd3
>                                    Kb8 8. Rd7 Be3 9. Kc6
>               17     1:50   2.85   1. Rh6 Be3 2. Re6 Bd4 3. Rc6+ Kb8 4.
>                                    Rc4 Be3 5. Rh4 Kb7 6. Rh3 Bg1 7. Rh7+
>                                    Kb8 8. Rh4 Be3 9. Rh8+ Kc7 10. Rh7+
>                                    Kb8 11. Rd7
>               17->   2:46   2.85   1. Rh6 Be3 2. Re6 Bd4 3. Rc6+ Kb8 4.
>                                    Rc4 Be3 5. Rh4 Kb7 6. Rh3 Bg1 7. Rh7+
>                                    Kb8 8. Rh4 Be3 9. Rh8+ Kc7 10. Rh7+
>                                    Kb8 11. Rd7
>               18     2:57   2.85   1. Rh6 Be3 2. Re6 Bd4 3. Rc6+ Kb8 4.
>                                    Rd6 Be3 5. Rd8+ Kc7 6. Rh8 Bd4 7. Rh7+
>                                    Kb8 8. Kc6 Be3 9. Rd7 Bg1 10. Rd1 Be3
>                                    11. Rd7
>               18->   5:11   2.85   1. Rh6 Be3 2. Re6 Bd4 3. Rc6+ Kb8 4.
>                                    Rd6 Be3 5. Rd8+ Kc7 6. Rh8 Bd4 7. Rh7+
>                                    Kb8 8. Kc6 Be3 9. Rd7 Bg1 10. Rd1 Be3
>                                    11. Rd7
>               19     5:32   2.85   1. Rh6 Be3 2. Re6 Bd4 3. Rc6+ Kb8 4.
>                                    Rd6 Be3 5. Rd8+ Kc7 6. Rh8 Bd4 7. Rh7+
>                                    Kb8 8. Kc6 Be3 9. Rd7 Bg1 10. Rg7 Be3
>                                    11. Rb7+ Kc8 12. Re7
>               19->   8:27   2.85   1. Rh6 Be3 2. Re6 Bd4 3. Rc6+ Kb8 4.
>                                    Rd6 Be3 5. Rd8+ Kc7 6. Rh8 Bd4 7. Rh7+
>                                    Kb8 8. Kc6 Be3 9. Rd7 Bg1 10. Rg7 Be3
>                                    11. Rb7+ Kc8 12. Re7
>               20     8:51   2.85   1. Rh6 Be3 2. Re6 Bd4 3. Rc6+ Kb8 4.
>                                    Rd6 Be3 5. Rd8+ Kc7 6. Rh8 Bd4 7. Rh7+
>                                    Kb8 8. Kc6 Be3 9. Rd7 Bg1 10. Rg7 Be3
>                                    11. Rb7+ Kc8 12. Rf7 Kb8 13. Rd7
>               20->  12:37   2.85   1. Rh6 Be3 2. Re6 Bd4 3. Rc6+ Kb8 4.
>                                    Rd6 Be3 5. Rd8+ Kc7 6. Rh8 Bd4 7. Rh7+
>                                    Kb8 8. Kc6 Be3 9. Rd7 Bg1 10. Rg7 Be3
>                                    11. Rb7+ Kc8 12. Rf7 Kb8 13. Rd7
>               21    12:58   2.85   1. Rh6 Be3 2. Re6 Bd4 3. Rc6+ Kb8 4.
>                                    Rd6 Be3 5. Rd8+ Kc7 6. Rh8 Bd4 7. Rh7+
>                                    Kb8 8. Kc6 Be3 9. Rd7 Bg1 10. Rg7 Be3
>                                    11. Rb7+ Ka8 12. Rd7 Kb8 13. Rd3 <HT>
>               21->  16:07   2.85   1. Rh6 Be3 2. Re6 Bd4 3. Rc6+ Kb8 4.
>                                    Rd6 Be3 5. Rd8+ Kc7 6. Rh8 Bd4 7. Rh7+
>                                    Kb8 8. Kc6 Be3 9. Rd7 Bg1 10. Rg7 Be3
>                                    11. Rb7+ Ka8 12. Rd7 Kb8 13. Rd3 <HT>
>               22    16:49   2.85   1. Rh6 Be3 2. Re6 Bd4 3. Rc6+ Kb8 4.
>                                    Rd6 Be3 5. Rd8+ Kc7 6. Rh8 Bd4 7. Rh7+
>                                    Kb8 8. Kc6 Be3 9. Rd7 Bg1 10. Rg7 Be3
>                                    11. Kb5 Bd4 12. Rh7 Be3 13. Rd7
>               22->  22:36   2.85   1. Rh6 Be3 2. Re6 Bd4 3. Rc6+ Kb8 4.
>                                    Rd6 Be3 5. Rd8+ Kc7 6. Rh8 Bd4 7. Rh7+
>                                    Kb8 8. Kc6 Be3 9. Rd7 Bg1 10. Rg7 Be3
>                                    11. Kb5 Bd4 12. Rh7 Be3 13. Rd7
>               23    23:38   2.85   1. Rh6 Be3 2. Re6 Bd4 3. Rc6+ Kb8 4.
>                                    Rd6 Be3 5. Rd8+ Kc7 6. Rh8 Bd4 7. Rh7+
>                                    Kb8 8. Kc6 Be3 9. Rd7 Bg1 10. Rg7 Bf2
>                                    11. Rb7+ Ka8 12. Rd7 Kb8 13. Kb5 Be3
>                                    14. Kc6
>               23->  35:38   2.85   1. Rh6 Be3 2. Re6 Bd4 3. Rc6+ Kb8 4.
>                                    Rd6 Be3 5. Rd8+ Kc7 6. Rh8 Bd4 7. Rh7+
>                                    Kb8 8. Kc6 Be3 9. Rd7 Bg1 10. Rg7 Bf2
>                                    11. Rb7+ Ka8 12. Rd7 Kb8 13. Kb5 Be3
>                                    14. Kc6
>               24    39:45   2.85   1. Rh6 Be3 2. Re6 Bd4 3. Rc6+ Kb8 4.
>                                    Rd6 Be3 5. Rd8+ Kc7 6. Rh8 Bd4 7. Rh7+
>                                    Kb8 8. Kc6 Be3 9. Rd7 Bg1 10. Rg7 Bf2
>                                    11. Rb7+ Ka8 12. Rd7 Kb8 13. Rf7 Be3
>                                    14. Rb7+ Kc8 15. Rd7
>               24->  59:16   2.85   1. Rh6 Be3 2. Re6 Bd4 3. Rc6+ Kb8 4.
>                                    Rd6 Be3 5. Rd8+ Kc7 6. Rh8 Bd4 7. Rh7+
>                                    Kb8 8. Kc6 Be3 9. Rd7 Bg1 10. Rg7 Bf2
>                                    11. Rb7+ Ka8 12. Rd7 Kb8 13. Rf7 Be3
>                                    14. Rb7+ Kc8 15. Rd7
>              time=60:00  cpu=99%  mat=2  n=656061878  fh=85%  nps=182k
>              ext-> chk=31463293 cap=435141 pp=2437834 1rep=429947 mate=54981
>              predicted=0  nodes=656061878  evals=195756269
>              endgame tablebase-> probes done=3825333  successful=3825333
>
>I don't have any hope for a solution to this one.  In fact, when I went to Steve
>Ham's web page and read those descriptions, I fell for it *each time* he said
>... if you thought ... and I think this is just one of those problems that is
>way beyond the reach of any computer program right now.
>

I saw the same behavior in XiniX. If you look from ply 16 to 24 you see that the
score doesn't change at all, and white is happy with it. (pv hardly changes
either )

We need some kind of "not making any progress" heuristic to solve this.

cheers,

Tony



This page took 0 seconds to execute

Last modified: Thu, 15 Apr 21 08:11:13 -0700

Current Computer Chess Club Forums at Talkchess. This site by Sean Mintz.