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Subject: Re: Three hard positions Ka6! found

Author: Slater Wold

Date: 08:53:55 09/19/01

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On September 19, 2001 at 05:28:47, Janosch Zwerensky wrote:

>
>>White(1): epdpfga test.epd test.out
>>PFGA: EPD record: 1   ID: test.1
>>end-game phase
>>              clearing hash tables
>>              time surplus   0.00  time limit 120:00 (120:00)
>>         nss  depth   time  score   variation (1)
>>starting thread 1
>>         (2)    9     0.16   2.57   1. Re6 Kd7 2. Re2 Kc7 3. Rc2+ Kb7 4.
>>                                    Rd2 Be5 5. Rd7+ Bc7 6. Kb4
>>                9     0.19   2.83   1. Rc6+ Kb7 2. Rd6 Be3 3. Rd7+ Ka8
>>                                    4. Kc6 Kb8 5. Rg7 Bd4 6. Rd7 <HT>
>>         (2)    9->   0.21   2.83   1. Rc6+ Kb7 2. Rd6 Be3 3. Rd7+ Ka8
>>                                    4. Kc6 Kb8 5. Rg7 Bd4 6. Rd7 <HT>
>>               10     0.24   2.83   1. Rc6+ Kb7 2. Rd6 Be3 3. Rd7+ Ka8
>>                                    4. Kc6 Kb8 5. Rg7 Bd4 6. Rd7 <HT>
>>         (4)   10->   0.30   2.83   1. Rc6+ Kb7 2. Rd6 Be3 3. Rd7+ Ka8
>>                                    4. Kc6 Kb8 5. Rg7 Bd4 6. Rd7 <HT>
>>         (3)   11     0.33   2.83   1. Rc6+ Kb7 2. Rd6 Be3 3. Rd7+ Ka8
>>                                    4. Kc6 Kb8 5. Rg7 Bd4 6. Rd7 <HT>
>>         (4)   11->   0.47   2.83   1. Rc6+ Kb7 2. Rd6 Be3 3. Rd7+ Ka8
>>                                    4. Kc6 Kb8 5. Rg7 Bd4 6. Rd7 <HT>
>>         (3)   12     0.54   2.83   1. Rc6+ Kb7 2. Rd6 Be3 3. Rd7+ Ka8
>>                                    4. Kc6 Kb8 5. Re7 Bc5 6. Rb7+ Ka8 7.
>>                                    Rd7 Kb8 8. a5
>>         (4)   12->   0.72   2.83   1. Rc6+ Kb7 2. Rd6 Be3 3. Rd7+ Ka8
>>                                    4. Kc6 Kb8 5. Re7 Bc5 6. Rb7+ Ka8 7.
>>                                    Rd7 Kb8 8. a5
>>         (3)   13     0.83   2.83   1. Rc6+ Kb7 2. Rd6 Be3 3. Rd7+ Ka8
>>                                    4. Kc6 Kb8 5. Re7 Bf2 6. Kb5 Bd4 7.
>>                                    Rd7 Bc5 8. a5
>>         (4)   13->   1.13   2.83   1. Rc6+ Kb7 2. Rd6 Be3 3. Rd7+ Ka8
>>                                    4. Kc6 Kb8 5. Re7 Bf2 6. Kb5 Bd4 7.
>>                                    Rd7 Bc5 8. a5
>>         (3)   14     1.27   2.83   1. Rc6+ Kb7 2. Rd6 Be3 3. Rd7+ Ka8
>>                                    4. Kc6 Kb8 5. Re7 Bf2 6. Rb7+ Ka8 7.
>>                                    Rd7 Kb8 8. Kb5 Bc5 9. a5 <HT>
>>         (4)   14->   1.97   2.83   1. Rc6+ Kb7 2. Rd6 Be3 3. Rd7+ Ka8
>>                                    4. Kc6 Kb8 5. Re7 Bf2 6. Rb7+ Ka8 7.
>>                                    Rd7 Kb8 8. Kb5 Bc5 9. a5 <HT>
>>         (3)   15     2.24   2.83   1. Rc6+ Kb7 2. Rd6 Be3 3. Rd7+ Ka8
>>                                    4. Kc6 Kb8 5. Re7 Bf2 6. Rb7+ Ka8 7.
>>                                    Rd7 Kb8 8. Kb5 Bc5 9. a5 Kc8
>>         (4)   15->   3.85   2.83   1. Rc6+ Kb7 2. Rd6 Be3 3. Rd7+ Ka8
>>                                    4. Kc6 Kb8 5. Re7 Bf2 6. Rb7+ Ka8 7.
>>                                    Rd7 Kb8 8. Kb5 Bc5 9. a5 Kc8
>>         (3)   16     4.55   2.83   1. Rc6+ Kb7 2. Rd6 Be3 3. Rd7+ Ka8
>>                                    4. Kc6 Kb8 5. Re7 Bf2 6. Rb7+ Ka8 7.
>>                                    Rh7 Kb8 8. Kb5 Bg1 9. Rd7 Bc5 10. a5
>>                                    <HT>
>>         (4)   16->  14.24   2.83   1. Rc6+ Kb7 2. Rd6 Be3 3. Rd7+ Ka8
>>                                    4. Kc6 Kb8 5. Re7 Bf2 6. Rb7+ Ka8 7.
>>                                    Rh7 Kb8 8. Kb5 Bg1 9. Rd7 Bc5 10. a5
>>                                    <HT>
>>         (3)   17    15.04   2.83   1. Rc6+ Kb7 2. Rd6 Be3 3. Rd7+ Ka8
>>                                    4. Kc6 Kb8 5. Re7 Bf2 6. Rb7+ Ka8 7.
>>                                    Rh7 Kb8 8. Kb5 Bg1 9. Rd7 Bc5 10. a5
>>                                    Kc8
>>         (4)   17->  24.04   2.83   1. Rc6+ Kb7 2. Rd6 Be3 3. Rd7+ Ka8
>>                                    4. Kc6 Kb8 5. Re7 Bf2 6. Rb7+ Ka8 7.
>>                                    Rh7 Kb8 8. Kb5 Bg1 9. Rd7 Bc5 10. a5
>>                                    Kc8
>>         (3)   18    25.16   2.83   1. Rc6+ Kb7 2. Rd6 Be3 3. Rd7+ Ka8
>>                                    4. Kc6 Kb8 5. Re7 Bf2 6. Rb7+ Ka8 7.
>>                                    Rh7 Kb8 8. Rg7 Bd4 9. Rb7+ Ka8 10.
>>                                    Rd7 Be3 11. Kb5 Bc5
>>         (4)   18->  42.14   2.83   1. Rc6+ Kb7 2. Rd6 Be3 3. Rd7+ Ka8
>>                                    4. Kc6 Kb8 5. Re7 Bf2 6. Rb7+ Ka8 7.
>>                                    Rh7 Kb8 8. Rg7 Bd4 9. Rb7+ Ka8 10.
>>                                    Rd7 Be3 11. Kb5 Bc5
>>         (3)   19    44.21   2.83   1. Rc6+ Kb7 2. Rd6 Be3 3. Rd7+ Ka8
>>                                    4. Kc6 Kb8 5. Re7 Bf2 6. Rb7+ Ka8 7.
>>                                    Rh7 Kb8 8. Rg7 Be3 9. Rb7+ Ka8 10.
>>                                    Rh7 Bd4 11. Kd5 Bc3 12. Rc7
>>         (4)   19->   1:08   2.83   1. Rc6+ Kb7 2. Rd6 Be3 3. Rd7+ Ka8
>>                                    4. Kc6 Kb8 5. Re7 Bf2 6. Rb7+ Ka8 7.
>>                                    Rh7 Kb8 8. Rg7 Be3 9. Rb7+ Ka8 10.
>>                                    Rh7 Bd4 11. Kd5 Bc3 12. Rc7
>>         (3)   20     1:10   2.83   1. Rc6+ Kb7 2. Rd6 Be3 3. Rd7+ Ka8
>>                                    4. Kc6 Kb8 5. Re7 Bf2 6. Rb7+ Ka8 7.
>>                                    Rh7 Kb8 8. Rg7 Be3 9. Rb7+ Ka8 10.
>>                                    Rh7 Bd4 11. Rd7 Be3 12. Kb5 Bc5
>>         (3)   20->   2:18   2.83   1. Rc6+ Kb7 2. Rd6 Be3 3. Rd7+ Ka8
>>                                    4. Kc6 Kb8 5. Re7 Bf2 6. Rb7+ Ka8 7.
>>                                    Rh7 Kb8 8. Rg7 Be3 9. Rb7+ Ka8 10.
>>                                    Rh7 Bd4 11. Rd7 Be3 12. Kb5 Bc5
>>         (2)   21     2:22   2.83   1. Rc6+ Kb7 2. Rd6 Be3 3. Rd7+ Ka8
>>                                    4. Kc6 Kb8 5. Re7 Bf2 6. Rb7+ Ka8 7.
>>                                    Rh7 Kb8 8. Rg7 Bd4 9. Rb7+ Ka8 10.
>>                                    Rd7 Be3 11. Kd6 Bd4 12. Kc7 Bc5 13.
>>                                    Kc6
>>         (4)   21->   3:42   2.83   1. Rc6+ Kb7 2. Rd6 Be3 3. Rd7+ Ka8
>>                                    4. Kc6 Kb8 5. Re7 Bf2 6. Rb7+ Ka8 7.
>>                                    Rh7 Kb8 8. Rg7 Bd4 9. Rb7+ Ka8 10.
>>                                    Rd7 Be3 11. Kd6 Bd4 12. Kc7 Bc5 13.
>>                                    Kc6
>>         (3)   22     3:50   2.83   1. Rc6+ Kb7 2. Rd6 Be3 3. Rd7+ Ka8
>>                                    4. Kc6 Kb8 5. Re7 Bf2 6. Rb7+ Ka8 7.
>>                                    Rh7 Kb8 8. Rg7 Bd4 9. Rb7+ Ka8 10.
>>                                    Rd7 Be3 11. Re7 Bg1 12. Kb5 Bd4 13.
>>                                    Kc4 Bc5
>>         (3)   22->   5:36   2.83   1. Rc6+ Kb7 2. Rd6 Be3 3. Rd7+ Ka8
>>                                    4. Kc6 Kb8 5. Re7 Bf2 6. Rb7+ Ka8 7.
>>                                    Rh7 Kb8 8. Rg7 Bd4 9. Rb7+ Ka8 10.
>>                                    Rd7 Be3 11. Re7 Bg1 12. Kb5 Bd4 13.
>>                                    Kc4 Bc5
>>         (2)   23     5:49   2.83   1. Rc6+ Kb7 2. Rd6 Be3 3. Rd7+ Ka8
>>                                    4. Kc6 Kb8 5. Re7 Bf2 6. Rb7+ Ka8 7.
>>                                    Rh7 Kb8 8. Rg7 Bd4 9. Rb7+ Ka8 10.
>>                                    Rd7 Be3 11. Rd8+ Ka7 12. Kb5 Kb7 13.
>>                                    Rd3 Bf2 14. Rd7+ Ka8 15. Kc6 Bc5
>>               23    10:49     ++   1. Ka6!!
>>               23    10:50   3.23   1. Ka6 Bf2 2. Rg5 Kb8 3. Rb5 Kc8 4.
>>                                    Ka7 Bd4 5. Rb4 Bf2 6. Rc4+ Kd7 7. Kb7
>>                                    Bg1 8. Rc7+ Kd6 9. Rh7 Ke6 10. Ka6
>>                                    Kf5 11. Rh6 Bd4 12. Rxb6 Ke4 13. Rd6
>>         (4)   23->  11:00   3.23   1. Ka6 Bf2 2. Rg5 Kb8 3. Rb5 Kc8 4.
>>                                    Ka7 Bd4 5. Rb4 Bf2 6. Rc4+ Kd7 7. Kb7
>>                                    Bg1 8. Rc7+ Kd6 9. Rh7 Ke6 10. Ka6
>>                                    Kf5 11. Rh6 Bd4 12. Rxb6 Ke4 13. Rd6
>>               24    12:26     ++   1. Ka6!!
>>         (3)   24    12:47   3.63   1. Ka6 Bf2 2. Rg5 Kb8 3. Rb5 Kc8 4.
>>                                    Rf5 Bd4 5. Rf8+ Kc7 6. Rf4 Bg1 7. Rf7+
>>                                    Kc6 8. Rh7 Bc5 9. Rh8 Bg1 10. Rc8+
>>                                    Kd5 11. Rd8+ Kc4 12. Rb8 Kb3 13. a5
>>                                    Bh2 14. Rb7 Be5 15. axb6
>>
>
>That's possibly quite impressive and interesting. The crafty main line as well
>as its evaluation suggest that it might have found a way of forcing capture of
>the black pawn on b6, and though its mainline seems to more or less follow the
>ideas underlying the Fischer/Ham/Finn/Andersson/Froeyman plan for the first few
>moves, after that it obiously does things completely different. So, if it can
>somehow be verified that Crafty can force a won position like the one that it
>arrives at at the end of its PV, then this might in fact tell us something new
>about this fascinating endgame.
>I'll take a closer look at Crafty's analysis when I'll have more time. It might
>also be interesting to see what Crafty thinks about this position when it has
>access to all five-men tablebases, since no doubt the position at the end of its
>current PV is a tablebase win.
>
>Regards,
>Janosch.

This particular eval is with all 5 man TB's.


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