Author: Uri Blass
Date: 10:51:18 09/19/01
Go up one level in this thread
On September 19, 2001 at 12:47:33, Bruce Moreland wrote: >On September 19, 2001 at 05:29:27, Uri Blass wrote: > >>On September 19, 2001 at 03:54:57, Bruce Moreland wrote: >> >>>I ran for two minutes per position in K=2 mode, and here is what I came up with. >>> >>>It's hard to decide exactly what constitutes a cook. In purest sense, a cook >>>should be a mate that is no slower than the key allows. >>> >>>I think that positions with approximately the same large score could be >>>confusing, and I found a lot of those. >>> >>>I would throw these out, to be safe. >>> >>>Your mileage may vary. >>> >>>bruce >>> >>>--------------- >>> >>>Id: ECM.973 >>>Fen: 2r2bk1/4qp2/3n2p1/2R1p1Np/2p1N3/r6P/1Q3PP1/3R2K1 w - - 0 1 >>>Qxa3 is +3, the key, Rxc8 is +4. >> >>1.Qxa3 Ne4 2.Nxe4 Rxc5 3.Rd7 Qe6 4.Rd8 Qe7 >> >>I believe that 5.Rxf8+ is winning for white but programs need time to find this >>move and usually prefer at small depthes Re8 that probably leads to a draw >> >>If Ferret evalutes 5.Re8 as +3 and not +1 for white then it seems that it has a >>poblem in it's evaluation function >> >>Here is Junior's evaluation for 5.Re8 >> >>It needs very small depth and less than 1 second on p200 to understand that the >>score should not be +3 for white >> >>Deep Fritz also does not see +3 score for white. > >You can't say that I have a problem because other programs fail low quickly >after you give then ten plies for free. My program only searched 12 plies here, >from the root. If I give Deep Fritz to search the position 2 plies after the root it does not see something close to +3 evaluation. New position [D]2r2bk1/4qp2/3n2p1/2R1p1Np/2p1N3/Q6P/5PP1/3R2K1 b - - 0 1 Analysis by Deep Fritz: 1...Rxc5 2.Qxc5 Nxe4 +- (2.41) Depth: 1/7 00:00:00 1...Nxe4! +- (1.97) Depth: 1/8 00:00:00 1...Nxe4! 2.Nxe4 Rxc5 = (0.03) Depth: 1/8 00:00:00 1...Nxe4 2.Nxe4 Rxc5 3.Nxc5 Qxc5 = (0.03) Depth: 2/8 00:00:00 1...Nxe4 2.Nxe4 Rxc5 3.Nxc5 Qxc5 = (0.03) Depth: 3/12 00:00:00 1kN 1...Nxe4-- ² (0.34) Depth: 4/12 00:00:00 2kN 1...Nxe4-- ² (0.34) Depth: 4/12 00:00:00 3kN 1...Nb5! ² (0.31) Depth: 4/13 00:00:00 5kN 1...Nb5! 2.Qg3 ² (0.28) Depth: 4/13 00:00:00 6kN 1...Nb5-- ² (0.59) Depth: 5/15 00:00:00 9kN 1...Nb5-- 2.Qe3 Rxc5 3.Rd7 Qxd7 4.Nf6+ Kg7 +- (1.53) Depth: 5/15 00:00:00 17kN 1...Nxe4! +- (1.50) Depth: 5/15 00:00:00 21kN 1...Nxe4! 2.Nxe4 Rxc5 3.Nxc5 Qxc5 4.Qc3 Bd6 ² (0.28) Depth: 5/16 00:00:00 26kN 1...Nxe4-- ² (0.59) Depth: 6/15 00:00:00 39kN 1...Nxe4-- ² (0.59) Depth: 6/15 00:00:00 43kN 1...Nxe4 2.Nxe4 Rxc5 3.Nxc5 Qxc5 4.Qxc5 Bxc5 5.Rc1 f5 6.Rxc4 ² (0.59) Depth: 7/15 00:00:00 83kN 1...Nxe4 2.Nxe4 Rxc5 3.Rd7 Qe6 4.Rd8 Qb6 5.Rxf8+ Kxf8 6.Nxc5 ± (0.81) Depth: 8/20 00:00:00 171kN 1...Nxe4-- ± (1.12) Depth: 9/22 00:00:00 346kN 1...Nxe4-- 2.Nxe4 Rxc5 3.Rd7 Qe6 4.Rd8 Qb6 ± (1.16) Depth: 9/24 00:00:00 455kN 1...Nxe4 2.Nxe4 Rxc5 3.Rd7 Qe6 4.Rd8 Qb6 5.Qa8 Qb1+ 6.Kh2 Kg7 7.Rxf8 ± (1.16) Depth: 10/24 00:00:01 1125kN 1...Nxe4 2.Nxe4 Rxc5 3.Rd7 Qe6 4.Rd8 Qe7 5.Re8 Qxe8 6.Nf6+ Kh8 7.Nxe8 ± (0.97) Depth: 11/25 00:00:03 2329kN 1...Nxe4-- ± (1.28) Depth: 12/28 00:00:05 4153kN 1...Nxe4-- ± (1.28) Depth: 12/28 00:00:06 4841kN 1...Nxe4 2.Nxe4 Rxc5 3.Rd7 Qe6 4.Rd8 Qe7 5.Re8 Qxe8 6.Nf6+ Kh8 7.Nxe8 ± (1.22) Depth: 13/27 00:00:15 11766kN 1...Nxe4 2.Nxe4 Rxc5 3.Rd7 Qe6 4.Rd8 Qe7 5.Re8 Qxe8 6.Nf6+ Kh8 7.Nxe8 +- (1.41) Depth: 14/30 00:00:44 32131kN 1...Nxe4 2.Nxe4 Rxc5 3.Rd7 Qe6 4.Rd8 Qe7 5.Re8 Qxe8 6.Nf6+ Kh8 7.Nxe8 ± (1.31) Depth: 15/32 00:01:43 74836kN (Blass, Tel-aviv 19.09.2001) > >My program likes Rxc8 better, but it has a good score for Qxa3, because in the >final position white is up a queen for a rook and a pawn. In the final position that I see in Deep Fritz's pv it is a queen for rook and 2 pawns so if we speak only about material it is 2 pawn advntage for white. Black has also a positional advantage because it has a passed pawn and the knight is not close to the passed pawn. I believe that Deep Fritz does not consider the fact that the knight is not close to the passed pawn but it considers the fact that black has a dangerous passed pawn. Note that tiger also has similiar evaluation to Ferret and here is tiger's analysis 2 plies after the root: New position 2r2bk1/4qp2/3n2p1/2R1p1Np/2p1N3/Q6P/5PP1/3R2K1 b - - 0 1 Analysis by Chess Tiger 14.0: 1...Nxe4 2.Nxe4 Rxc5 3.Rd7 Qe6 4.Rd8 Qb6 5.Rxf8+ Kxf8 6.Qxc5+ Qxc5 7.Nxc5 +- (2.52) Depth: 10 00:00:00 106kN 1...Nxe4 2.Nxe4 Rxc5 3.Rd7 Qe6 4.Rd8 Qb6 5.Rxf8+ Kxf8 6.Nxc5 Qb1+ 7.Kh2 f6 +- (2.08) Depth: 10 00:00:00 116kN 1...Nxe4 2.Nxe4 Rxc5 3.Rd7 Qe6 +- (2.08) Depth: 11 00:00:00 205kN 1...Nxe4 2.Nxe4 Rxc5 3.Rd7 Qe6 4.Rd8 Qb6 5.Qa8 Kg7 6.Rxf8 Qb1+ 7.Kh2 Rb5 +- (2.90) Depth: 12 00:00:01 431kN 1...Nxe4 2.Nxe4 Rxc5 3.Rd7 Qe6 4.Rd8 Qe7 5.Re8 Qxe8 6.Nf6+ Kh8 7.Nxe8 c3 8.Qa6 Be7 +- (3.30) Depth: 13 00:00:05 1388kN 1...Nxe4 2.Nxe4 Rxc5 3.Rd7 Qe6 4.Rd8 Qe7 5.Re8 Qxe8 6.Nf6+ Kh8 7.Nxe8 c3 8.Qa6 Be7 9.Nd6 +- (3.14) Depth: 14 00:00:10 2795kN 1...Nxe4 2.Nxe4 Rxc5 3.Rd7 Qe6 4.Rd8 Qe7 5.Re8 Qxe8 6.Nf6+ Kh8 7.Nxe8 c3 8.Qc1 c2 9.Nf6 Rc3 +- (3.10) Depth: 15 00:00:20 5562kN 1...Nxe4 2.Nxe4 Rxc5 3.Rd7 Qe6 4.Rd8 Qe7 5.Re8 Qxe8 6.Nf6+ Kh8 7.Nxe8 c3 8.Qc1 c2 9.Nf6 Rc4 10.Nd7 Ba3 +- (2.96) Depth: 16 00:00:47 12426kN 1...Nxe4 2.Nxe4 Rxc5 3.Rd7 Qe6 4.Rd8 Qe7 5.Re8 Qxe8 6.Nf6+ Kh8 7.Nxe8 c3 8.Qc1 c2 9.Nf6 Rc4 10.Nd7 Bg7 +- (3.04) Depth: 17 00:01:38 25831kN 1...Nxe4 2.Nxe4 Rxc5 3.Rd7 Qe6 4.Rd8 Qe7 5.Re8 Qxe8 6.Nf6+ Kh8 7.Nxe8 c3 8.Qc1 c2 9.Nf6 Rc6 10.Nd5 f6 +- (2.68) Depth: 18 00:04:56 78795kN (Blass, Tel-aviv 19.09.2001) Uri
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