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Subject: Re: Any chess programs using Forth?

Author: Heiner Marxen

Date: 18:19:01 09/19/01

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On September 19, 2001 at 20:04:42, Ian Osgood wrote:

>The biggest catch is having to think in RPN!  Forth is a very simple and compact
>interpreted language.  It can be implemented in as little as 2K (!).  Thus, it
>has found a niche in embedded systems and prototypes.  I believe they are aiming
>this chip at the embedded market (set-top web boxes).  However, they have to
>develop all their own software for it.
>
>Chuck Moore, the inventor of Forth and these chips, is quite an iconoclast.  He
>actually wrote his own PC Forth OS and Forth VLSI CAD system to design and
>simulate these chips.  He can't understand why people buy big bloated operating
>systems instead of writing their own.  :)
>
>When I saw how deplorable their Forth chess program was (no quiescence, eval is
>simply material and kings on first rank until the endgame), I started porting
>TSCP to Forth for fun.  What a headache!  Migrating from C to Forth is hard; you
>lose types and structures and local variables and all your C idioms.  Forth is a
>*very* idiomatic language, from what I can tell.  Without knowledge of common
>patterns, efficient Forth looks like so much line noise.  Definitely a language
>for Real Programmers (TM).

Uuh, did you try APL?  That is worse.

Not long ago I tried to do some serious programming with "dc", the UNIX
"desc calculator" with arbitrary precision numbers (that attracted me).
I did not even manage to write an endless loop without infinite recursion.
No, I did not try to do chess programming in "dc"... well, should I?
Just kidding :-)

>I thought that a chess program would make a good benchmark for this chip because
>1) no floating point required, 2) requires little memory and small word size for
>a basic engine, and 3) it can give you a real metric, nodes per second, which
>this asynchronous chip currently lacks, having no clock speed as such.

That appears to make sense.

>Ian

Cheers,
Heiner



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