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Subject: Re: Hashtables: is larger always better?

Author: Angrim

Date: 15:03:03 09/24/01

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On September 24, 2001 at 16:24:01, Robert Hyatt wrote:

>On September 24, 2001 at 15:31:58, Antonio Dieguez wrote:
>
>>On September 24, 2001 at 14:33:49, Uri Blass wrote:
>>
>>>On September 24, 2001 at 13:53:58, Antonio Dieguez wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>>>Several hash into 2 X 32 bit values.  You store one value, you use the other
>>>>>to generate the hash index.  This is not quite as safe as a true 64 bit hash
>>>>>signature where all 64 bits are used, but it is pretty good.  If you have
>>>>>one million entries in the table, your hash key is 52 bits long, effectively,
>>>>>which is not horrible.  Not as good as 64, but not horrible.
>>>>
>>>>hi. isn't one million of entries around 2^20, so just 44 bits are used for the
>>>>key, (not 52) ?
>>>
>>>no
>>>My understanding is that in this case every chess position is practically
>>>compressed to 52 bits(52=32+20)
>>>20 bits are used for the index when 32 bits are used for the position.
>>
>>oops yes I "just" mixed up what Hyatt said...
>>but what does this mean
>>>>>one million entries in the table, your hash key is 52 bits long, effectively,
>>>>>which is not horrible.  Not as good as 64, but not horrible.
>>
>>who cares if it is 52 or other? what about more hash entries, then that will
>>surpass 64, funny. We can't compare just that numbers.
>
>
>
>
>Who cares about the number of hash entries?  We aren't scanning the entire table
>to find a false match.  We index to one position only.  Suppose the table was
>2^64 in size so you could store the entire set of possible hash signatures.
>Does that increase the chances of a collision?  Suppose your table has 1
>entry.  you can _still_ get a collision.
>
>I think you are trying to consider "time" in the equation here.  The farther
>apart two entries are stored in time, the less chance they will falsely match
>since the first has a greater chance of getting overwritten before the second
>is reached.  The chances of a collision with 64 bits are so remote, I wouldn't
>give it a moment's thought.  Because even with a _full_ 64 bit address space
>for the table, the probability of a false match is one out of 2^64.  Very

no, the probability of a false match if you have 64 bit hash values and a
full 2^64 entry hash table is 100% as soon as you search a position that
you have not already searched and stored.

>small.  Because for any 64 bit hash signature, there is only _one_ place I
>will try to find it stored in the table, regardless of how large the table
>is.  With that small a chance to get a false match with a full address space,
>smaller tables only reduce the chances further due to overwrites.

With a table of 2^64 entries, the "one place" that you probe will
certainly have a match on all 64 bits.  So if you search a new position
it will give a false match.

Angrim



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