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Subject: Re: Is Crafty broke?!

Author: Slater Wold

Date: 03:21:10 09/25/01

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On September 25, 2001 at 04:37:33, Uri Blass wrote:

>On September 25, 2001 at 01:29:09, Uri Blass wrote:
>
>>On September 24, 2001 at 20:33:21, Slater Wold wrote:
>>
>>>On September 24, 2001 at 19:35:51, Uri Blass wrote:
>>>
>>>>On September 24, 2001 at 19:10:43, Dann Corbit wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>There is no problem with crafty.
>>>>>It's a problem with the counters.
>>>>>
>>>>>The biggest number a long can hold is about 2 billion.
>>>>>
>>>>>That overflows very easily.
>>>>>
>>>>>If you let crafty run for more than a few minutes, the NPS figures have no
>>>>>meaning.  You used to be able to get negative values, but I think at least that
>>>>>has been fixed.
>>>>
>>>>Note that based on my experience of long analysis
>>>>Deep Fritz has not the same problem.
>>>>
>>>>Uri
>>>
>>>You're correct:
>>>
>>>W,S - Deep Junior 7
>>>rnbqk2r/1p3ppp/p7/1NpPp3/QPP1P1n1/P4N2/4KbPP/R1B2B1R b kq - 0 1
>>>
>>>Analysis by Deep Junior 7:
>>>
>>>1...cxb4 2.Nc7+ Kf8 3.Qxb4+ Kg8 4.Nxa8
>>>  +-  (1.99)   Depth: 3   00:00:01
>>>1...Kf8 2.Bg5
>>>  ³  (-0.30)   Depth: 3   00:00:01  1kN
>>>1...Kf8 2.Bg5
>>>  ³  (-0.30)   Depth: 3   00:00:01  1kN
>>>1...Kf8 2.Bg5
>>>  ³  (-0.30)   Depth: 3   00:00:01  1kN
>>>1...0-0 2.h3 cxb4 3.axb4 Bd7 4.hxg4
>>>  ³  (-0.32)   Depth: 3   00:00:01  4kN
>>>1...0-0 2.h3 Bd7 3.hxg4 axb5
>>>  ³  (-0.52)   Depth: 6   00:00:01  8kN
>>>1...0-0 2.h3 Bg3 3.hxg4 Bxg4 4.Nc3 cxb4 5.axb4
>>>  =  (-0.09)   Depth: 9   00:00:01  148kN
>>>1...0-0 2.h3 Bg3 3.hxg4 Bxg4 4.Nc3 Nd7 5.Be3 cxb4
>>>  ²  (0.48)   Depth: 12   00:00:02  2256kN
>>>1...Nc6 2.Bg5 f6 3.dxc6 0-0 4.c7 Qd7 5.Bh4 Bxh4 6.Nxh4 Qc6 7.Nc3 Qxc7
>>>  ²  (0.47)   Depth: 12   00:00:05  3016kN
>>>1...Nd7 2.Nd6+ Kf8 3.Ng5 Bd4 4.Ndxf7 Qf6 5.Rb1 Bg1 6.Nf3 Nb6 7.Qc2 Kxf7 8.Rxg1
>>>cxb4 9.c5 Nd7 10.axb4
>>>  =  (0.06)   Depth: 12   00:00:09  9620kN
>>>1...Nd7 2.Nd6+ Kf8 3.h3 Nb6 4.Qe8+
>>>  =  (0.05)   Depth: 15   00:00:43  86103kN
>>>1...Nd7 2.Nd6+ Kf8 3.h3 Nb6 4.Qe8+ Qxe8 5.Nxe8 Kxe8 6.hxg4 Bd4 7.Nxd4 cxd4 8.Kf3
>>>Ke7 9.c5 Nd7 10.Bg5+ Nf6
>>>  ±  (0.81)   Depth: 18   00:08:19  900744kN
>>>1...0-0 2.h3 Bd4 3.Nbxd4 Nf6 4.Qc2 cxd4 5.Kf2 h6 6.Be2 Nbd7 7.Rf1
>>>  ²  (0.43)   Depth: 18   00:09:40  900744kN
>>>1...0-0 2.h3 Bd4 3.Nbxd4 Nf6 4.Qc2 cxd4 5.Kf2 a5 6.Bd2 Bd7 7.Be2 axb4 8.axb4
>>>  ²  (0.58)   Depth: 20   00:31:35  3409915kN
>>>
>>>(W,  24.09.2001)
>>>
>>>3,409,915,000 nodes.  And not the correct solution.  :(
>>>
>>>(This is Nolot #6.)
>>>
>>>
>>>Slate
>>
>>3,409,915,000<2^32
>>
>>The real test is when the number of nodes is bigger than 2^32
>>
>>Deep Fritz has no problem but I do not know remember other chessbase programs
>>that can  report more than 2^32 nodes
>>
>>Uri
>
>Here is the proof that Junior7 cannot count more than 2^32 nodes
>This position happened in my correspondence game(I am black) and here is
>Junior7's analysis
>
>This analysis cannot help my oppponent so I post it
>The analysis cannot help my opponent when we are already at move 40 and his
>position is hopeless.
>
>Note that I see tablebases hits inspite of the fact that my computer has not all
>the tablebases.
>
>I am interested to see the first line that programs can see as a tablebase hit.
>
>It will be a good idea if programs not only tell me the number of tablebase hits
>but also tell me the first line that is leading to a tablebase hit.
>
>Dov Rozenberg - Uri Blass
>[D]5r1k/p4qpp/8/2p2R2/4P3/1P2P1P1/Pr5P/4QBK1 b - - 0 1
>
>Analysis by Junior 7:
>
>31...Qxf5 32.exf5 Rxf5 33.e4
>  +-  (1.91)   Depth: 3   00:00:00
>31...Qe8 32.Qc3
>  =  (-0.23)   Depth: 3   00:00:00
>31...Qe8 32.Qc3
>  =  (-0.23)   Depth: 6   00:00:00  4kN
>31...Qe8 32.Qc3
>  =  (-0.23)   Depth: 9   00:00:00  68kN
>31...Qe8 32.Qc3
>  =  (-0.23)   Depth: 12   00:00:01  818kN
>31...Qe8 32.Qc3 Rxa2 33.Qxc5 Rxf5 34.exf5 h6 35.Bc4 Ra1+ 36.Kf2 Rh1 37.Qxa7
>Rxh2+ 38.Kg1 Rd2
>  =  (-0.20)   Depth: 14   00:00:06  4151kN
>31...Qe7 32.Qc3 Rxf5
>  ³  (-0.35)   Depth: 14   00:00:08  5082kN
>31...Qe7 32.Qc3 Rxa2 33.Qe5 Qd8 34.Qxc5 Rxf5 35.exf5 Ra5 36.Qc2 Re5 37.Kf2 Qe8
>38.Qd3 Qc6
>  ³  (-0.36)   Depth: 16   00:00:25  15402kN
>31...Qe7 32.Qc3 Rxa2 33.Qe5 Qd8 34.Qxc5 Rxf5 35.Qxf5 Ra3 36.Bc4 Ra1+ 37.Kg2 a5
>38.Qd5
>  ³  (-0.33)   Depth: 18   00:01:29  51682kN
>31...Qe7 32.Qc3 Rxa2 33.Qe5 Qd8 34.Qxc5 Rxf5 35.Qxf5 Rb2 36.Qf7 a5 37.e5 Qb8
>38.e6 Rxb3 39.e7 Rxe3
>  ³  (-0.33)   Depth: 19   00:03:28  117345kN
>31...Qe7 32.Qc3 Rxa2 33.Qe5 Qd8 34.Qxc5 Rxf5 35.exf5 h6 36.Qc3 Ra5 37.Bd3 Rd5
>38.Bc2 Rd2 39.Qc4
>  ³  (-0.35)   Depth: 20   00:08:18  289958kN
>31...Qe7 32.Qc3 Rxa2 33.Qe5 Qd8 34.Qxc5 Rxf5 35.exf5 Ra5 36.Qc2 h5 37.Be2 Re5
>38.e4 Qd4+ 39.Kf1 Rxe4 40.Bxh5 Qa1+
>  ³  (-0.33)   Depth: 21   00:18:44  693109kN
>31...Qe7 32.Qc3 Rxf5 33.exf5 Rxa2 34.b4 Qf8 35.Qb3 Ra1 36.bxc5 Rc1 37.Qb2 Qxc5
>38.Qb8+ Qc8 39.Qxc8+ Rxc8 40.e4 Re8
>  ³  (-0.56)   Depth: 22   00:57:04  2214862kN
>31...Qe7 32.Qc3 Rxf5 33.exf5 Rxa2 34.b4 Qf8 35.Qb3 Ra1 36.Qc3 Rd1 37.Qxc5 Qxc5
>38.bxc5 Rc1 39.c6 Rxc6 40.e4
>  ³  (-0.56)   Depth: 23   01:45:39  4155772kN, tb=37
>31...Qe7 32.Qc3 Rxf5 33.exf5 Rxa2 34.b4 Qf8 35.Qb3 Ra1 36.Qc3 Rd1 37.Qxc5 Qxc5
>38.bxc5 Rc1 39.c6 Rxc6 40.e4
>  ³  (-0.56)   Depth: 24   03:33:57  8041kN, tb=181
>
>(Blass, Tel-aviv 08.07.2001)
>
>Uri

That's interesting.  I've never noticed that before.


Slate



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