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Subject: Re: ECM positions - draws ?

Author: Uri Blass

Date: 01:19:45 09/26/01

Go up one level in this thread


On September 25, 2001 at 17:39:56, Uri Blass wrote:

>On September 25, 2001 at 15:34:58, J. Wesley Cleveland wrote:
>
>>These are all positions where crafty gets the key move, but the evaluation is
>>around zero. Does anyone know if these are supposed to be draws, or are they
>>broken, or crafty did't see the full solution ?
>
>
>>[D]6k1/1p3p2/4r1p1/1PPrbq1p/2QN4/P2R1P1P/R4KP1/8 b - - bm Bg3+; id "ECM.1208 1
>>min draw ???";
>
>Here is some analysis:
>1...Bg3+ 2.Kxg3 Qe5+ 3.f4 h4+ 4.Kh2 Qxf4+ 5.g3 hxg3+ 6.Kg2 Qe4+ and I prefer
>black but I am not sure if black can win it.
>
>possible computer lines after the first 6 moves are 7.Kg1 Rf6 or 7.Rf3 Qxd4
>
>Uri

7.Kg1 Rf6 is losing

Here is Deep Fritz's opinion after 7...Rf6:

New position
[D]6k1/1p3p2/5rp1/1PPr4/2QNq3/P2R2pP/R7/6K1 w - - 0 1

Analysis by Deep Fritz:

8.Qxd5--
  +-  (2.72)   Depth: 1/3   00:00:00
8.Qxd5-- Qxd5
  ³  (-0.59)   Depth: 1/5   00:00:00
8.Rxg3!
  =  (0.19)   Depth: 1/5   00:00:00
8.Rxg3! Rxd4
  ±  (1.00)   Depth: 1/5   00:00:00
8.c6!
  ±  (1.16)   Depth: 1/5   00:00:00
8.c6! bxc6
  +-  (3.59)   Depth: 1/6   00:00:00
8.Rad2!
  +-  (3.72)   Depth: 1/6   00:00:00
8.Rad2--
  +-  (3.25)   Depth: 2/9   00:00:00
8.Rad2-- Qe1+ 9.Kg2 Rf2+ 10.Rxf2
  +-  (3.06)   Depth: 2/9   00:00:00
8.Re2!
  +-  (3.13)   Depth: 2/9   00:00:00
8.Re2! Rxc5
  +-  (3.25)   Depth: 2/9   00:00:00
8.Re2--
  -+  (-#2)   Depth: 3/6   00:00:00
8.Re2--
  -+  (-#2)   Depth: 3/8   00:00:00
8.Rad2!
  -+  (-13.31)   Depth: 3/9   00:00:00  1kN
8.Rad2! Qe1+ 9.Kg2 Rf2+ 10.Rxf2
  +-  (3.06)   Depth: 3/12   00:00:00  1kN
8.c6!
  +-  (3.09)   Depth: 3/12   00:00:00  2kN
8.c6! Qe1+ 9.Kg2 Rf2+
  +-  (3.16)   Depth: 3/12   00:00:00  2kN
8.c6--
  +-  (2.63)   Depth: 4/11   00:00:00  3kN
8.c6-- Qe1+ 9.Kg2 Rf2+ 10.Rxf2 Qxf2+ 11.Kh1 Qh2#
  -+  (-#4)   Depth: 4/21   00:00:00  4kN
8.h4!
  -+  (-13.37)   Depth: 4/21   00:00:00  5kN
8.h4! Rxc5 9.Qxc5 Qxd3 10.Re2
  +-  (2.25)   Depth: 4/21   00:00:00  8kN
8.Qc3!
  +-  (2.28)   Depth: 4/21   00:00:00  8kN
8.Qc3! Rxc5 9.Qxc5 Qxd3 10.Kg2
  +-  (2.31)   Depth: 4/21   00:00:00  9kN
8.Rd1!
  +-  (2.34)   Depth: 4/21   00:00:00  10kN
8.Rd1! Qe3+ 9.Kh1 Rh5 10.Rad2 Rxh3+ 11.Kg2
  +-  (2.66)   Depth: 4/21   00:00:00  11kN
8.Rd1--
  +-  (2.34)   Depth: 5/14   00:00:00  13kN
8.Rd1-- Qe3+ 9.Kh1 Qe4+ 10.Rg2 Rf2 11.Rdg1 Rxd4
  =  (-0.12)   Depth: 5/15   00:00:00  16kN
8.Qc3!
  =  (-0.09)   Depth: 5/15   00:00:00  19kN
8.Qc3! Rxc5 9.Qxc5 Qxd3 10.Re2
  +-  (2.50)   Depth: 5/17   00:00:00  25kN
8.Qc3--
  +-  (2.19)   Depth: 6/18   00:00:00  31kN
8.Qc3-- Rxc5 9.Re3 Rf1+ 10.Kxf1 Qh1+ 11.Ke2 Qh2+ 12.Kf1
  +-  (1.53)   Depth: 6/20   00:00:00  51kN
8.Qc3--
  ±  (1.22)   Depth: 7/18   00:00:00  74kN
8.Qc3-- Rxc5 9.Ne6 Rf1+ 10.Kxf1 Qf5+ 11.Rf3 Qxh3+ 12.Rg2 Rxc3
  ³  (-0.44)   Depth: 7/21   00:00:00  102kN
8.Ra1!
  ³  (-0.41)   Depth: 7/22   00:00:00  151kN
8.Ra1! Qf4 9.Rf3 Qe5 10.Raf1 Rxd4 11.Qb3
  ²  (0.41)   Depth: 7/22   00:00:00  184kN
8.Rxg3!
  ²  (0.44)   Depth: 7/22   00:00:00  264kN
8.Rxg3! Rxd4 9.Qc2 Qd5
  ²  (0.59)   Depth: 7/22   00:00:00  277kN
8.Rxg3--
  ²  (0.28)   Depth: 8/18   00:00:00  302kN
8.Rxg3-- Rxd4 9.Qe2 Qd5 10.Qe8+ Kh7 11.Rag2 Rd1+ 12.Kh2 Qxc5
  =  (0.16)   Depth: 8/20   00:00:00  381kN
8.Ra1!
  =  (0.19)   Depth: 8/20   00:00:00  422kN
8.Ra1! Qf4 9.Rf3 Qe5 10.Raf1 Rxd4 11.Qb3 Rxf3 12.Qxf3
  ²  (0.56)   Depth: 8/21   00:00:00  471kN
8.Ra1 Qf4 9.Rf3 Qe5 10.Rxf6 Qxf6 11.Rf1 Rxd4 12.Qe2 Qe6
  ²  (0.53)   Depth: 9/23   00:00:01  884kN
8.Ra1--
  =  (0.22)   Depth: 10/26   00:00:02  1335kN
8.Ra1-- Rf2 9.Rxg3 Rxd4 10.Qc3 Rdd2 11.Qxd2 Rxd2 12.Rc1 Qd4+ 13.Kh1 Kf8
  -+  (-3.94)   Depth: 10/27   00:00:02  1753kN
8.Rxg3!
  -+  (-3.91)   Depth: 10/28   00:00:05  3589kN
8.Rxg3! Rxd4 9.Qc1 Rc4 10.Qd1 Qf4 11.Qd8+ Kh7 12.Qd3 Rc1+ 13.Kg2 Rxc5
  =  (-0.03)   Depth: 10/28   00:00:06  4377kN
8.Rxg3 Rxd4 9.Qe2 Qb1+ 10.Kh2 Rd1 11.Qg2 Rff1 12.Re3 Rh1+ 13.Kg3 Qxb5
  ³  (-0.28)   Depth: 11/29   00:00:09  6256kN
8.Rxg3--
  ³  (-0.59)   Depth: 12/31   00:00:16  11234kN
8.Rxg3--
  ³  (-0.59)   Depth: 12/32   00:00:19  13519kN
8.Rxg3 Rxd4 9.Qe2 Qb1+ 10.Kg2 Rd1 11.Rf3 Rxf3 12.Kxf3 Qf5+ 13.Kg2 Qd5+
  µ  (-0.78)   Depth: 13/33   00:00:40  28698kN
8.Rxg3--
  µ  (-1.09)   Depth: 14/33   00:01:07  48035kN
8.Rxg3-- Rxd4 9.Qc2 Qe1+ 10.Kh2 Rd1 11.Qg2 Rf1 12.Rxg6+ fxg6 13.Qxg6+
  -+  (-2.69)   Depth: 14/39   00:01:44  76416kN
8.Qc3!
  -+  (-2.66)   Depth: 14/39   00:02:30  109882kN
8.Qc3! Rxc5 9.Ne6 Rf1+ 10.Kxf1 Qh1+ 11.Ke2 Rxc3 12.Rxc3 Qh2+ 13.Ke1 Qxa2
  -+  (-2.50)   Depth: 14/39   00:02:50  125319kN
8.Qc3--
  -+  (-2.81)   Depth: 15/31   00:03:51  169104kN
8.Qc3-- Rxc5 9.Ne6 Rf1+ 10.Kxf1 Qh1+ 11.Ke2 Rxc3 12.Rxc3 Qe4+ 13.Kd1 Qb1+
  -+  (-3.28)   Depth: 15/42   00:05:02  219617kN
8.Rxg3!
  -+  (-3.25)   Depth: 15/42   00:05:39  247698kN
8.Rxg3! Rxd4 9.Qc2 Qe1+ 10.Kh2 Rd1 11.Qg2 Rf1 12.Rxg6+ fxg6 13.Qxg6+ Kf8
  -+  (-2.78)   Depth: 15/42   00:06:34  288576kN

(Blass, Tel-aviv 26.09.2001)


It leaves us with 7.Rf3 when Deep Fritz cannot see something decisive for black
in a short time

New position
[D]6k1/1p3p2/4r1p1/1PPr4/2QNq3/P4RpP/R5K1/8 b - - 0 1

Analysis by Deep Fritz:

7...Qxf3+--
  +-  (4.87)   Depth: 1/3   00:00:00
7...Qxf3+-- 8.Nxf3
  +-  (7.34)   Depth: 1/3   00:00:00
7...Rxd4!
  +-  (3.53)   Depth: 1/3   00:00:00
7...Rxd4! 8.Qc2 Qd5 9.Kxg3 Re1 10.Qf2 Rdd1 11.h4 Rg1+ 12.Kh3 Rgf1 13.Qxf1
  =  (-0.13)   Depth: 1/12   00:00:00
7...Rxd4 8.Qf1 Qd5
  =  (-0.09)   Depth: 2/6   00:00:00
7...Rxd4 8.Qf1 Qd5 9.Rc2
  =  (0.06)   Depth: 3/9   00:00:00
7...Rxd4 8.Qc2 Rc4 9.Qxe4 Rexe4 10.c6
  =  (0.09)   Depth: 4/12   00:00:00  2kN
7...Rxd4 8.Qc2 Rc4 9.Qxe4 Rexe4 10.c6 bxc6
  =  (0.09)   Depth: 5/13   00:00:00  6kN
7...Rxd4 8.Qc2 Qd5 9.Kxg3 Rc4 10.Qf2 Qxc5
  =  (-0.03)   Depth: 6/15   00:00:00  16kN
7...Rxd4 8.Qc2 Qd5 9.Kxg3 Rc4 10.Qf2 Qxc5 11.Rxf7
  =  (-0.03)   Depth: 7/16   00:00:00  42kN
7...Rxd4 8.Qc2 Qd5 9.Kxg3 Rc4 10.Qf2 Qxc5 11.Rxf7 Qxb5
  =  (-0.03)   Depth: 8/19   00:00:00  93kN
7...Rxd4 8.Qc2 Qd5 9.Kxg3 Rc4 10.Qf2 Qxc5 11.Rxf7 Qxb5 12.Rf8+
  =  (-0.03)   Depth: 9/20   00:00:00  221kN
7...Rxd4 8.Qc2 Qd5 9.Kxg3 Rd1 10.Qf2 Qg5+ 11.Kh2 Ree1 12.Qg2
  =  (-0.13)   Depth: 10/24   00:00:00  625kN
7...Rxd4 8.Qb3 Rf6 9.a4 Rd5 10.Qe3 Qxf3+ 11.Qxf3 Rxf3 12.Kxf3 g5 13.Kxg3
  =  (-0.16)   Depth: 11/28   00:00:05  3822kN
7...Rxd4 8.Qb3 Rf6 9.a4 Rd5 10.Qe3 Qxf3+ 11.Qxf3 Rxf3 12.Kxf3
  =  (-0.25)   Depth: 12/28   00:00:09  6305kN
7...Rxd4 8.Qb3 Rf6 9.a4 Rd5 10.Qe3 Qxf3+ 11.Qxf3 Rxf3 12.Kxf3
  =  (-0.25)   Depth: 13/33   00:00:22  15458kN
7...Rxd4 8.Qb3 Rf6 9.Qc3 g5 10.Rb2 g4 11.hxg4 Rh6
  ³  (-0.34)   Depth: 14/34   00:01:09  47463kN
7...Rxd4 8.Qb3 Rf6 9.a4 g5 10.b6 Rc4 11.Qe3 Qxf3+ 12.Qxf3
  ³  (-0.28)   Depth: 15/34   00:03:44  155522kN

(Blass, Tel-aviv 26.09.2001)

conclusion

1...Bg3+ 2.Kxg3 Qe5+ 3.f4 h4+ 4.Kh2 Qxf4+ 5.g3 hxg3+ 6.Kg2 Qe4+ 7.Rf3 Rxd4 is
forced from white's point of view and the question is black can win after these
moves

Uri



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