Computer Chess Club Archives


Search

Terms

Messages

Subject: Re: Interesting position

Author: Uri Blass

Date: 16:10:48 09/27/01

Go up one level in this thread


On September 27, 2001 at 18:02:03, Dann Corbit wrote:

>On September 27, 2001 at 17:47:47, Robert Hyatt wrote:
>
>>On September 27, 2001 at 17:33:58, Roy Eassa wrote:
>>
>>>On September 27, 2001 at 17:07:23, Andy Serpa wrote:
>>>
>>>>I am intrigued by this position from an old book:
>>>>
>>>>[D]rnb2r1k/pp1p2pp/2p1P3/2q1p3/2B3Q1/2N4P/PPP3P1/R1B4K w - - 0 1
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>In the book, White saves himself with the following manoeuvre:
>>>>
>>>>1. b4 Qxb4 2. Rb1 Qxc3 3. Bh6 gxh6 4. e7 Re8 5. Rf1
>>>>and white mates in a few moves.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>I'm curious what a fast computer comes up with in this position...
>>>
>>>
>>>Starting two moves in (I think it's too hard to start at the beginning), after
>>>1. b4 Qxb4 2. Rb1 Qxc3:
>>>
>>>[D]rnb2r1k/pp1p2pp/2p1P3/4p3/2B3Q1/2q4P/P1P3P1/1RB4K w - - 0 1
>>>
>>>Here's what I get with Gambit Tiger 2.0 Aggressive on an Athlon 1.2 (in 1
>>>minute, it sees it has a perpetual.  In 1.5 minutes, it sees it has an
>>>advantage.  In 4 minutes, it sees it has a win.):
>>>
>>>00:00:00.8	-4.14	8	161550	Bd3 Qe1+ Kh2 Qf2 e7 Re8 Bxh7 Rxe7 Bg6
>>>00:00:00.1	-3.24	8	312659	Bd3
>>>00:00:01.7	-3.24	9	391208	Bd3 Qe1+
>>>00:00:01.4	-3.68	9	670505	Bd3 Qc5 Qh4 e4 Qxe4 Qh5 e7 Re8 Ba3 d5
>>>00:00:02.2	-3.02	9	885911	e7 Re8 Bh6 gxh6 Rf1 Qa3 Rf7 Qc1+ Kh2 Qf4+ Rxf4 exf4
>>>00:00:05.0	-2.12	10	2037930	e7
>>>00:00:06.5	-2.12	11	2496977	e7
>>>00:00:11.9	-1.60	11	4422079	e7 Re8 Bd3 d5 Qf3 Nd7 Qf7 Rxe7 Qxe7 Qc5 Qe6 Qf8 Bb2
>>>00:00:14.9	-1.60	12	5492547	e7 Re8
>>>00:00:48.3	-1.36	12	17494341	Bd3 Qe1+ Kh2 Rf1 Bxf1 Qxf1 Ba3 Qf6 e7 Qf7 Rf1 Qg8
>>>Qf5
>>>00:00:55.1	-0.70	12	20234211	Bh6
>>>00:00:57.8	-0.31	12	21078455	Bh6 gxh6 e7 Re8 Rf1 Qa3 Rf7 Qc1+ Kh2 Qg5 Rf8+ Kg7
>>>Rf7+ Kg8 Rf8+ Kg7
>>>00:01:33.7	0.59	13	35309917	Bh6
>>>00:04:00.9	3.84	13	94628156	Bh6 Rg8 e7 Qxc4 Qxc4 d5 Bxg7+ Kxg7 Qh4 Nd7 Qg5+ Kf7
>>>Rf1+ Ke6 Qxg8+ Kxe7 Rf7+ Kd6
>>
>>
>>I think that is too late to start searching.  Qc3 probably loses.  Question is,
>>is there an alternative that doesn't, such as Qa3 instead.  I haven't studied it
>>much, but the queen at c3 is locked out of the game which is how white wins.
>
>After b4, I think Qf2 is white's best move.  It's still bad, but not a clear
>loser like Qxb4.

What are the programs evaluations after b4 Qxb4 that make you sure that Qxb4 is
a clear loser?

The move Qxc3 is a clear loser after b4 Qxb4 Rb1 and Juniot7 can see a forced
mate after these moves.
I am less sure about Qxb4.

  From what I have seen so far, all the programs I have tested
>snack on the pawn and have no idea of the trouble in store.  They have a big,
>fat, positive eval after taking the pawn, even after a nice long think about it.

Not all of them

Here is Junior7's analysis on a slow p200

New position
rnb2r1k/pp1p2pp/2p1P3/2q1p3/1PB3Q1/2N4P/P1P3P1/R1B4K b - - 0 1

Analysis by Junior 7:

1...Qxb4 2.Bd2 dxe6
  -+  (-2.10)   Depth: 3   00:00:00
1...Qxb4 2.Bd2 b5 3.Be2 Qxg4 4.Bxg4
  -+  (-2.06)   Depth: 6   00:00:00  6kN
1...Qxb4 2.Bd3 Qxg4 3.hxg4 dxe6 4.Ba3 Rf4 5.Rf1 Rxg4
  -+  (-1.87)   Depth: 9   00:00:01  218kN
1...Qxb4 2.Bd3 Qxg4 3.hxg4 dxe6 4.Ba3 Rf4 5.Rf1 Rxf1+ 6.Bxf1 Nd7 7.Ne4
  -+  (-1.98)   Depth: 12   00:00:35  4705kN
1...Qxb4 2.Rb1 Qc5 3.Be3 Qa3 4.Bc1
  =  (0.00)   Depth: 13   00:03:10  25572kN
1...Qd6 2.Qh4 dxe6 3.Bd3 e4 4.Qxe4 g6 5.Bh6 Rf7 6.Qe3 Nd7
  ³  (-0.28)   Depth: 13   00:04:10  33675kN

Uri



This page took 0 seconds to execute

Last modified: Thu, 15 Apr 21 08:11:13 -0700

Current Computer Chess Club Forums at Talkchess. This site by Sean Mintz.