Author: Dieter Buerssner
Date: 14:23:37 09/28/01
Go up one level in this thread
On September 28, 2001 at 14:27:32, Simon Finn wrote:
>On September 28, 2001 at 12:36:55, Dieter Buerssner wrote:
>
>[snip]
>
>>I think, often in this type of positions (only few pawns), chess programs are
>>usually very good. There are only few pawn moves possible, and programs reach a
>>high search depth fast, and of course, because of the TBs. Without TBs I get:
>
>I would be very impressed if any program can solve the following
>innocent-looking position (Grigoriev 1933) in a reasonable time. By "solve" I
>mean find most of the PV (up to 13. Ka8, say) with a winning score.
I think, I did not expresss myself clearly. In this very interesting position,
there are 6 pawns that can move. In the position, that I meant by "this type of
position", there could only 2 pawns move (and both would be captured
immediately). I looked at it from a chess-engine search point of view. I may be
of course wrong, but I have the feeling, that chess-engines are often rather
good in pawn endgames with few pawns, that are blocked.
>[D]k7/8/pp6/2p4K/8/PPP5/8/8 w - - bm c4;c0 "Grigoriev 1933";pv "1. c4 Kb7 2. a4
>Kc6 3. Kg5 Kc7 4. Kf6 Kd7 5. a5 Kd6 6. Kf5 Kc7 7. Ke6 Kc6 8. Ke7 Kc7 9. Ke8 Kf8
>10. axb6 Kb7 11. Kd7 Kxb6 12. Kc8 Kb6 13. Ka8 a5 14. Kb8 a4 15. bxa4 Ka5 16. Kb7
>Kxa4 17. Kc6 Kb4 18. Kd5";
Yace, AMD K6-2 475, 20M hash, KPPKP as only relevant 5-men TB, all 4-men TBs.
Unfortunately, the PV is hidden in the hash. Naturally, when I follow the line,
after some moves, a winning score is seen. Sure, I cannot show the high scores,
and the whole line, but it does at least not look too bad.
nodes time score depth
9104109 2:15.9 0.03 18. 1.c4 Kb7 2.Kg5 a5 3.a4 Kc7 4.Kg6 Kc6 5.Kf7 Kd6
6.Kf6 Kd7 7.Kf7 Kc8 8.Ke6 Kc7 9.Ke7 Kc6 10.Ke6
Kc7 11.Ke7 Kc6 12.Ke6 Kc7 {0}
11544446 2:57.9 0.06 19t 1.c4 Kb7 2.a4 a5 3.Kh6 Kc7 4.Kg7 Kd6H 5.Kf6H
Kd7H 6.Kf7H b5H 7.cxb5H Kd6H 8.b6H Ke5H 9.b7H
Kd6H {HT}
13006082 3:30.0 0.06 19. 1.c4 Kb7 2.a4 a5 3.Kh6 Kc7 4.Kg7 Kd6 5.Kf6 Kd7
6.Kf7 b5 7.cxb5 Kd6 8.b6 Ke5 9.b7 Kd6
14649431 3:50.5 0.06 20t 1.c4 Kb7 2.a4 a5 3.Kh6 Kc7 4.Kg7 Kd6 5.Kf6 Kd7
6.Kf7 Kd6 7.Ke8 Ke6H 8.Kd8H Kd6H 9.Kc8H Kc6H
10.Kb8H Kd7H 11.Kb7H Ke6H 12.Kxb6H Ke5H 13.Kb7H
Kd4H 14.Ka7H Kc3H 15.Kb6H Kb4H 16.Kc6H {HT} {80}
16762214 4:33.0 0.06 20. 1.c4 Kb7 2.a4 a5 3.Kh6 Kc7 4.Kg7 Kd6 5.Kf6 Kd7
6.Kf7 Kd6 7.Ke8 Ke6 8.Kd8 Kd6 9.Kc8 Kc6 10.Kb8
Kd7 11.Kb7 Ke6 12.Kxb6 Ke5 13.Kb7 Kd4 14.Ka7
Kc3 15.Kb6 Kb4 16.Kc6 {HT} {80}
19858667 5:16.1 0.06 21t 1.c4 Kb7 2.a4 a5 3.Kh6 Kc7 4.Kg7 Kd6 5.Kf6 Kd7
6.Kf7 Kd6H 7.Ke8H Ke6H 8.Kd8H b5H 9.axb5H a4H
10.bxa4H Kd6H 11.b6H Kc6H 12.b7H Kxb7H 13.a5H
Kb8H {HT} {80}
23100946 6:47.0 0.06 21. 1.c4 Kb7 2.a4 a5 3.Kh6 Kc7 4.Kg7 Kd6 5.Kf6 Kd7
6.Kf7 Kd6 7.Ke8 Ke6 8.Kd8 b5 9.axb5 a4 10.bxa4
Kd6 11.b6 Kc6 12.b7 Kxb7 13.a5 Kb8 {HT} {80}
29924869 8:35.2 0.45 22t 1.c4 Kb7 2.a4 Kc6 3.Kg5 Kc7 4.Kg6H Kd8H 5.Kf5H
b5H {HT}
34894188 10:28.1 0.45 22. 1.c4 Kb7 2.a4 Kc6 3.Kg5 Kc7 4.Kg6 Kd8 5.Kf5 b5
45047790 12:50.4 0.47 23t 1.c4 Kb7 2.a4 Kc6 3.Kg5 Kc7 4.Kg6 Kc6 5.Kf6 Kd7
6.a5 Kd6 7.Kf5 Ke7 8.Ke5 Kd7 9.Kd5 Kc7 10.Ke4
Kc6 11.Kd3 Kb7H 12.axb6H Kxb6H 13.Kc3H {HT} {0}
52677230 16:13.9 0.47 23. 1.c4 Kb7 2.a4 Kc6 3.Kg5 Kc7 4.Kg6 Kc6 5.Kf6 Kd7
6.a5 Kd6 7.Kf5 Ke7 8.Ke5 Kd7 9.Kd5 Kc7 10.Ke4
Kc6 11.Kd3 Kb7 12.axb6 Kxb6 13.Kc3 {HT} {0}
67742584 19:56.0 0.47 24t 1.c4 Kb7 2.a4 Kc6 3.Kg5 Kc7 4.Kf6 Kd7 5.a5 Kd6H
6.Kf5H Kc7H 7.Ke6H Kc6H 8.Ke7H Kc7H {HT} {0}
79835250 23:46.9 0.47 24. 1.c4 Kb7 2.a4 Kc6 3.Kg5 Kc7 4.Kf6 Kd7 5.a5 Kd6
6.Kf5 Kc7 7.Ke6 Kc6 8.Ke7 Kc7 {HT} {0}
>Pawn endings are difficult!
I won't disagree at all.
Regards,
Dieter
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