Author: Christophe Theron
Date: 10:53:59 05/22/98
Go up one level in this thread
On May 21, 1998 at 14:17:44, Fernando Villegas wrote:
>Hi all:
>My first aquaitance with Junior 4,6 was an article of my friend Enrique
>in WCCR , where he basically said Junior was of course a member of the
>top league, but maybe not the very best and in any case it did not seem
>to give something new or moving to the owner; it was just another top
>program and even Enrique said he felt a lot less pushed by Junior than
>by other top programs. His feeling were that with Junior he had the
>chance to develop his plans, not with Mches 7 or other very enterpirsing
>programs.
>Of course his impressions are valid as much are "his". This is a good
>point to remember when we discuss here about the relatives virtues of
>the programs: that depends in a very great degree of the style of the
>human side, of his weakneses and strenghts. By that reason and after
>several games against Junior my impression is altoguether different and
>I want to share it with you. By the way my games are all played at 40
>moves in 60 minutes, a rythm I think is the very best as much has
>something of a tournament game but no so slow and demanding of time.
>Well, I believe Junior 4,6 is not impressive and dramatic in his way to
>push, but push heavily. So I do not share the opinion that Junior just
>wait mistakes and then fish what he can. He does not launch an attack
>with screems and a battle axe in the good, threatening style of CSTASL
>or Fritz 5 pre-update version, but I have seen that he gets a hold of
>any weakness and do so systematically until fruits ripens and are
>collected. And that's heavy. This seem weird as much as Junior is
>supoposed to be just a "fast searcher" engine as Amir Ban has said once
>and again, but not matter what his searching gets advantages that have
>an strong smell of positional playing capabilities. Maybe this should
>begin a discussion of the following issue: is positional understanding
>and force a virtue ONLY related with a source code full of knowledege?
>And vice versa' Junior make me wonder if a good and fast search device
>cannot get, at the end, after all, a better or equally good positional
>judgement. If so, some points of discussion should be radically
>reviewed.
>Fernando
I have been posting this idea several times here. Of course everybody
disagreed.
Nice to see that this idea came to you too, Fernando.
The point in fact is not being fast, but to search deep enough that some
positional issues begin to be obvious. When you get this, you REMOVE the
positional knowledge associated with these issues, and try to
concentrate on the kind of knowledge that search will be unable to find
(long term planning for example).
By saying this (remove knowledge), I know that some people will judge me
as a kind of heretic. Those people want to believe that the human
knowledge and the human way of searching a chess tree is the most
beautiful thing in the universe, and the ultimate goal for a chess
program. Of course I disagree.
Christophe
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