Author: Uri Blass
Date: 08:12:47 09/30/01
Go up one level in this thread
On September 30, 2001 at 10:39:50, Miguel A. Ballicora wrote: >On September 30, 2001 at 06:15:44, José Carlos wrote: > >>On September 29, 2001 at 20:15:16, Gareth McCaughan wrote: >> >>>José Carlos wrote: >>> >>>> The point is not the move, but the eval. The program must >>>> know white is winning: >>>> >>>> [D]R4rk1/5pp1/5q1p/1p1Qp3/8/1B6/1PP2bPP/5K2 w - - 0 1 >>>> >>>> Qxf7+ and after the changes, the pawn ending is won. >>> >>>Crafty 18.11, Athlon 1GHz, has +0.8 after 0.4 seconds (8 ply), >>>rising to 0.93 after 11 seconds, 1.17 after 28 seconds, 1.36 >>>after 6 minutes. It plays Qxf7+ at all depths. >>> >>>-- >>>g >> >> It doesn't surprise me at all. Crafty is probably the best in the world >>evaluatiing pawn endgames. >> >> José C. > >Anyway, the position "as is" is not perfect for a test because white will want >to play Qxf7 even if doesn't understand the upcoming pawn endgame (because Qxf7 >just win a pawn). No Junior7 prefers to force a draw by perpetual check and cannot find Qxf7. If a program believes that black is better in the pawn endgame then it is not going to find Qxf7. What is very good is the idea, so I try to improve the >original position in a way that the first move gives an idea that the program >understand the endgame. > >[D]8/4k1p1/1p2B2p/4p3/8/4P2P/1PP1KbP1/8 b - - am Bxe3; > >Crafty 17.14 avoids Bxe3 in an instant without any problem even in my K6-II 400 >mhz. How about other programs? The test is simple but I like it in the modified >version because it tells me fi a program understand a couple of concepts. >For instance, Gaviota wants to play Bxe3, So I know what to modify :-). > >Regards, >Miguel Deep Fritz also likes Bxe3 New position 8/4k1p1/1p2B2p/4p3/8/4P2P/1PP1KbP1/8 b - - 0 1 Analysis by Deep Fritz: 1...Kxe6-- ± (1.19) Depth: 1/3 00:00:00 1...Kxe6-- ± (1.19) Depth: 1/3 00:00:00 1...Bxe3! ² (0.44) Depth: 1/4 00:00:00 1...Bxe3! = (-0.13) Depth: 1/4 00:00:00 1...Bxe3 2.Bd5 = (-0.13) Depth: 2/5 00:00:00 1...Bxe3 2.Bd5 Kd6 = (-0.16) Depth: 3/6 00:00:00 1...Bxe3 2.Bf5 Kf6 3.Be4 = (-0.06) Depth: 4/7 00:00:00 1...Bxe3 2.Bd5 Kd6 3.c4 Bd4 = (-0.06) Depth: 5/8 00:00:00 1kN 1...Bxe3 2.Bd5 Bc5 3.g3 g6 4.c4 = (-0.03) Depth: 6/10 00:00:00 3kN 1...Bxe3 2.Bd5 Bc5 3.g3 g6 4.Be4 Kf6 = (-0.03) Depth: 7/11 00:00:00 7kN 1...Bxe3 2.Bd5 Bc5 3.g3 g6 4.Be4 Kf6 5.c3 = (0.00) Depth: 8/12 00:00:00 16kN 1...Bxe3 2.Bf5 Bc1 3.b4 Bb2 4.c4 Ba3 5.Be4 = (0.03) Depth: 9/15 00:00:00 50kN 1...Bxe3 2.Bd5 Kd6 3.Be4 Bf4 4.b4 b5 5.Bd3 Kc6 6.c4 bxc4 = (0.09) Depth: 10/15 00:00:00 99kN 1...Bxe3 2.Bf5 Bc1 3.b3 Bf4 4.Be4 Kd6 5.c4 Kc5 = (0.09) Depth: 11/17 00:00:00 231kN 1...Bxe3 2.Bf5 Bc1 3.b3 Bf4 4.Be4 Kd6 5.b4 h5 6.g4 hxg4 7.hxg4 = (0.09) Depth: 12/19 00:00:01 483kN 1...Bxe3 2.Kxe3 Kxe6 3.c4 h5 4.g4 g6 5.b4 h4 6.Ke4 g5 7.c5 = (0.19) Depth: 13/21 00:00:02 1039kN 1...Bxe3 2.Kxe3 Kxe6 3.c4 Kd6 4.Ke4 h5 5.h4 = (0.25) Depth: 14/22 00:00:03 1611kN 1...Bxe3 2.Kxe3 Kxe6 3.c4 Kd6 4.Ke4 Ke6 5.b3 h5 6.h4 = (0.25) Depth: 15/23 00:00:06 3076kN, tb=1 1...Bxe3 2.Kxe3 Kxe6 3.c4 Kd6 4.b4 Ke6 5.Ke4 ² (0.41) Depth: 16/24 00:00:12 5395kN, tb=6 1...Bxe3 2.Kxe3 Kxe6 3.c4 Kd6 4.b4 h5 5.g4 hxg4 6.hxg4 Kd7 7.Ke4 ² (0.50) Depth: 17/25 00:00:25 11346kN, tb=50 1...Bxe3 2.Kxe3 Kxe6 3.c4 Kd6 4.b4 h5 5.Ke4 Ke6 6.h4 Kd6 7.c5+ ² (0.56) Depth: 18/27 00:00:47 21088kN, tb=198 1...Bxe3 2.Kxe3 Kxe6 3.c4 h5 4.h4 Kf5 5.b4 Ke6 6.Ke4 Kf6 7.c5 ² (0.59) Depth: 19/30 00:01:54 49750kN, tb=993 (Blass, Tel-aviv 30.09.2001) Note that finding Kxe3 is also not an easy problem for part of the programs Deep Fritz has no problem but Junior7 cannot find it I remember that I told Amir Ban some years ago about pawn endgames problems and he told me that it is not important because Junior almost never does not get pawn endgames so it is more important for him to work about other problems in the evaluation. I also heard that the book of Junior does not include a lot of captures and I guess that it reduces the chances for a pawn endgame(I do not know if it is still the case today and I heard it few years ago). Here is Junior7's opinion after 1...Bxe3 New position [D]8/4k1p1/1p2B2p/4p3/8/4b2P/1PP1K1P1/8 w - - 0 1 Analysis by Junior 7: 2.Kxe3 Kxe6 3.Ke4 h5 4.h4 = (0.23) Depth: 3 00:00:00 2.Kxe3 Kxe6 3.Ke4 g5 4.c3 h5 = (0.08) Depth: 6 00:00:00 1kN 2.Bf5 Bc1 3.b4 Kf6 = (0.09) Depth: 6 00:00:00 2kN 2.Bd5 Bf4 3.Kf3 Kf6 = (0.17) Depth: 6 00:00:00 3kN 2.Bd5 Bc1 3.b4 Kf6 4.Be4 h5 = (0.19) Depth: 9 00:00:00 11kN 2.Bd5 Bc1 3.b3 Kd6 4.Be4 b5 5.h4 h5 = (0.19) Depth: 12 00:00:00 61kN 2.Bd5 Bc1 3.b3 Kf6 4.g3 h5 5.Kf3 b5 = (0.19) Depth: 15 00:00:00 307kN 2.Bf5 Bc1 3.b4 h5 4.Be4 Bb2 5.c4 Ba3 = (0.23) Depth: 15 00:00:01 519kN, tb=1 2.Bf5 Bc1 3.b4 Kf6 4.Be4 h5 5.g3 g6 6.c4 Ba3 7.b5 Bc5 = (0.17) Depth: 18 00:00:03 1908kN, tb=4 2.Bd5 Kd6 3.Be4 Bf4 4.c3 b5 5.Kf3 Bc1 6.b3 h5 7.b4 ² (0.26) Depth: 18 00:00:08 4485kN, tb=5 2.Bd5 Bc1 3.b4 Kf6 4.Kf3 Bd2 5.b5 h5 6.Ke4 Bc3 7.h4 ² (0.27) Depth: 20 00:00:21 11362kN, tb=36 2.Bd5 Bc1 3.b4 Kf6 4.Be4 h5 ² (0.29) Depth: 22 00:00:44 23743kN, tb=131 2.Bd5 Bf4 3.Kd3 Kf6 4.Ke4 Bc1 5.b3 Bd2 ² (0.31) Depth: 23 00:02:07 66154kN, tb=448 2.Bd5 Bc1 3.b4 Kf6 4.g3 h5 5.Kd3 g6 6.c3 Kf5 7.Be4+ Kg5 8.c4 Ba3 9.h4+ Kg4 10.b5 Kxg3 ² (0.28) Depth: 24 00:03:28 104526kN, tb=1104 2.Bd5 Bc1 3.b4 Kf6 4.g3 h5 5.Kd3 Bb2 6.Ke4 Bc3 7.b5 Kg5 ² (0.28) Depth: 25 00:05:30 163531kN, tb=2868 (Blass, Tel-aviv 30.09.2001) Uri
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