Author: Robert Hyatt
Date: 09:11:51 10/01/01
Go up one level in this thread
On September 30, 2001 at 11:12:47, Uri Blass wrote: >On September 30, 2001 at 10:39:50, Miguel A. Ballicora wrote: > >>On September 30, 2001 at 06:15:44, José Carlos wrote: >> >>>On September 29, 2001 at 20:15:16, Gareth McCaughan wrote: >>> >>>>José Carlos wrote: >>>> >>>>> The point is not the move, but the eval. The program must >>>>> know white is winning: >>>>> >>>>> [D]R4rk1/5pp1/5q1p/1p1Qp3/8/1B6/1PP2bPP/5K2 w - - 0 1 >>>>> >>>>> Qxf7+ and after the changes, the pawn ending is won. >>>> >>>>Crafty 18.11, Athlon 1GHz, has +0.8 after 0.4 seconds (8 ply), >>>>rising to 0.93 after 11 seconds, 1.17 after 28 seconds, 1.36 >>>>after 6 minutes. It plays Qxf7+ at all depths. >>>> >>>>-- >>>>g >>> >>> It doesn't surprise me at all. Crafty is probably the best in the world >>>evaluatiing pawn endgames. >>> >>> José C. >> >>Anyway, the position "as is" is not perfect for a test because white will want >>to play Qxf7 even if doesn't understand the upcoming pawn endgame (because Qxf7 >>just win a pawn). > >No > >Junior7 prefers to force a draw by perpetual check and >cannot find Qxf7. > >If a program believes that black is better in the pawn endgame >then it is not going to find Qxf7. If a program believes black is better in that position after the trades, then it already has a serious endgame problem (lack of knowledge). Nothing else matters in such cases... > > > What is very good is the idea, so I try to improve the >>original position in a way that the first move gives an idea that the program >>understand the endgame. >> >>[D]8/4k1p1/1p2B2p/4p3/8/4P2P/1PP1KbP1/8 b - - am Bxe3; >> >>Crafty 17.14 avoids Bxe3 in an instant without any problem even in my K6-II 400 >>mhz. How about other programs? The test is simple but I like it in the modified >>version because it tells me fi a program understand a couple of concepts. >>For instance, Gaviota wants to play Bxe3, So I know what to modify :-). >> >>Regards, >>Miguel > >Deep Fritz also likes Bxe3 >New position >8/4k1p1/1p2B2p/4p3/8/4P2P/1PP1KbP1/8 b - - 0 1 > >Analysis by Deep Fritz: > >1...Kxe6-- > ± (1.19) Depth: 1/3 00:00:00 >1...Kxe6-- > ± (1.19) Depth: 1/3 00:00:00 >1...Bxe3! > ² (0.44) Depth: 1/4 00:00:00 >1...Bxe3! > = (-0.13) Depth: 1/4 00:00:00 >1...Bxe3 2.Bd5 > = (-0.13) Depth: 2/5 00:00:00 >1...Bxe3 2.Bd5 Kd6 > = (-0.16) Depth: 3/6 00:00:00 >1...Bxe3 2.Bf5 Kf6 3.Be4 > = (-0.06) Depth: 4/7 00:00:00 >1...Bxe3 2.Bd5 Kd6 3.c4 Bd4 > = (-0.06) Depth: 5/8 00:00:00 1kN >1...Bxe3 2.Bd5 Bc5 3.g3 g6 4.c4 > = (-0.03) Depth: 6/10 00:00:00 3kN >1...Bxe3 2.Bd5 Bc5 3.g3 g6 4.Be4 Kf6 > = (-0.03) Depth: 7/11 00:00:00 7kN >1...Bxe3 2.Bd5 Bc5 3.g3 g6 4.Be4 Kf6 5.c3 > = (0.00) Depth: 8/12 00:00:00 16kN >1...Bxe3 2.Bf5 Bc1 3.b4 Bb2 4.c4 Ba3 5.Be4 > = (0.03) Depth: 9/15 00:00:00 50kN >1...Bxe3 2.Bd5 Kd6 3.Be4 Bf4 4.b4 b5 5.Bd3 Kc6 6.c4 bxc4 > = (0.09) Depth: 10/15 00:00:00 99kN >1...Bxe3 2.Bf5 Bc1 3.b3 Bf4 4.Be4 Kd6 5.c4 Kc5 > = (0.09) Depth: 11/17 00:00:00 231kN >1...Bxe3 2.Bf5 Bc1 3.b3 Bf4 4.Be4 Kd6 5.b4 h5 6.g4 hxg4 7.hxg4 > = (0.09) Depth: 12/19 00:00:01 483kN >1...Bxe3 2.Kxe3 Kxe6 3.c4 h5 4.g4 g6 5.b4 h4 6.Ke4 g5 7.c5 > = (0.19) Depth: 13/21 00:00:02 1039kN >1...Bxe3 2.Kxe3 Kxe6 3.c4 Kd6 4.Ke4 h5 5.h4 > = (0.25) Depth: 14/22 00:00:03 1611kN >1...Bxe3 2.Kxe3 Kxe6 3.c4 Kd6 4.Ke4 Ke6 5.b3 h5 6.h4 > = (0.25) Depth: 15/23 00:00:06 3076kN, tb=1 >1...Bxe3 2.Kxe3 Kxe6 3.c4 Kd6 4.b4 Ke6 5.Ke4 > ² (0.41) Depth: 16/24 00:00:12 5395kN, tb=6 >1...Bxe3 2.Kxe3 Kxe6 3.c4 Kd6 4.b4 h5 5.g4 hxg4 6.hxg4 Kd7 7.Ke4 > ² (0.50) Depth: 17/25 00:00:25 11346kN, tb=50 >1...Bxe3 2.Kxe3 Kxe6 3.c4 Kd6 4.b4 h5 5.Ke4 Ke6 6.h4 Kd6 7.c5+ > ² (0.56) Depth: 18/27 00:00:47 21088kN, tb=198 >1...Bxe3 2.Kxe3 Kxe6 3.c4 h5 4.h4 Kf5 5.b4 Ke6 6.Ke4 Kf6 7.c5 > ² (0.59) Depth: 19/30 00:01:54 49750kN, tb=993 > >(Blass, Tel-aviv 30.09.2001) > >Note that finding Kxe3 is also not an easy problem >for part of the programs > >Deep Fritz has no problem but Junior7 cannot find it > >I remember that I told Amir Ban some years ago about >pawn endgames problems and he told me that it is not important >because Junior almost never does not get pawn endgames >so it is more important for him to work about other problems >in the evaluation. :) Funny comment. Which will change after playing a lot of GM players. :) > >I also heard that the book of Junior does not >include a lot of captures and I guess that it reduces >the chances for a pawn endgame(I do not know if it is >still the case today and I heard it few years ago). > >Here is Junior7's opinion after 1...Bxe3 > >New position >[D]8/4k1p1/1p2B2p/4p3/8/4b2P/1PP1K1P1/8 w - - 0 1 > >Analysis by Junior 7: > >2.Kxe3 Kxe6 3.Ke4 h5 4.h4 > = (0.23) Depth: 3 00:00:00 >2.Kxe3 Kxe6 3.Ke4 g5 4.c3 h5 > = (0.08) Depth: 6 00:00:00 1kN >2.Bf5 Bc1 3.b4 Kf6 > = (0.09) Depth: 6 00:00:00 2kN >2.Bd5 Bf4 3.Kf3 Kf6 > = (0.17) Depth: 6 00:00:00 3kN >2.Bd5 Bc1 3.b4 Kf6 4.Be4 h5 > = (0.19) Depth: 9 00:00:00 11kN >2.Bd5 Bc1 3.b3 Kd6 4.Be4 b5 5.h4 h5 > = (0.19) Depth: 12 00:00:00 61kN >2.Bd5 Bc1 3.b3 Kf6 4.g3 h5 5.Kf3 b5 > = (0.19) Depth: 15 00:00:00 307kN >2.Bf5 Bc1 3.b4 h5 4.Be4 Bb2 5.c4 Ba3 > = (0.23) Depth: 15 00:00:01 519kN, tb=1 >2.Bf5 Bc1 3.b4 Kf6 4.Be4 h5 5.g3 g6 6.c4 Ba3 7.b5 Bc5 > = (0.17) Depth: 18 00:00:03 1908kN, tb=4 >2.Bd5 Kd6 3.Be4 Bf4 4.c3 b5 5.Kf3 Bc1 6.b3 h5 7.b4 > ² (0.26) Depth: 18 00:00:08 4485kN, tb=5 >2.Bd5 Bc1 3.b4 Kf6 4.Kf3 Bd2 5.b5 h5 6.Ke4 Bc3 7.h4 > ² (0.27) Depth: 20 00:00:21 11362kN, tb=36 >2.Bd5 Bc1 3.b4 Kf6 4.Be4 h5 > ² (0.29) Depth: 22 00:00:44 23743kN, tb=131 >2.Bd5 Bf4 3.Kd3 Kf6 4.Ke4 Bc1 5.b3 Bd2 > ² (0.31) Depth: 23 00:02:07 66154kN, tb=448 >2.Bd5 Bc1 3.b4 Kf6 4.g3 h5 5.Kd3 g6 6.c3 Kf5 7.Be4+ Kg5 8.c4 Ba3 9.h4+ Kg4 10.b5 >Kxg3 > ² (0.28) Depth: 24 00:03:28 104526kN, tb=1104 >2.Bd5 Bc1 3.b4 Kf6 4.g3 h5 5.Kd3 Bb2 6.Ke4 Bc3 7.b5 Kg5 > ² (0.28) Depth: 25 00:05:30 163531kN, tb=2868 > >(Blass, Tel-aviv 30.09.2001) > >Uri
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