Computer Chess Club Archives


Search

Terms

Messages

Subject: Re: One mate to solve.

Author: Paul

Date: 09:08:07 10/03/01

Go up one level in this thread


On October 02, 2001 at 23:04:12, leonid wrote:

>On October 02, 2001 at 22:02:56, Paul wrote:
>
>>On October 02, 2001 at 20:00:24, leonid wrote:
>>
>>>On October 02, 2001 at 10:07:56, Paul wrote:
>>>
>>>>On October 01, 2001 at 12:56:43, leonid wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>Hello!
>>>>>
>>>>>Today I wanted to put some simple mate position. This one, at least, have very
>>>>>unsophisticated shape.
>>>>>
>>>>>[D]8/8/3QQQQK/3nbrpn/3pQQBQ/3bQrqq/3qRqNB/3qRnNk w - -
>>>>>
>>>>>Please indicate your result.
>>>>>
>>>>>If you happened to have some version of Chess Master that do brute force search,
>>>>>please find for me time that it take for him to find mate in 4 and 5 moves for
>>>>>this position. I need this in order to have some idea what is his branching
>>>>>factor. I tried to do this myself with CM5000, that I have, but found no
>>>>>possibility to indicate my position. Since CM is the most performant and the
>>>>>most frequently mentioned program that solve the mate, I would like to know his
>>>>>basic mate solving capability.
>>>>>
>>>>>Thanks,
>>>>>Leonid.
>>>>
>>>>Hi!
>>>
>>>Hi!
>>>
>>>>Haven't got CM6000 installed at the moment, and don't remember if it's got a
>>>>mate level search, but John Merlino is the best person to answer that.
>>>>
>>>>For Pretz this is a difficult problem, for now it finds this:
>>>>
>>>>06:18 WM9 11 Nxh3 Ndxf6 Bxf3 Ng4+ Qfxg4 Bg7+ Qxg7 Rf6+ Qgxf6 Bxe4 Nxf2+ Qxf2
>>>>Nf4+ Bxf3 Qgxf3+ Qxf3 Qxf3#
>>>>20:52 WM8 11 Bxf3 Ndxf6 Bxg3 Ng4+ Qfxg4 Bg7+ Qxg7 Rf6+ Qgxf6 Nh2 Nf4+ Nxf3
>>>>Qgxh3+ Qh2 Qxh2#
>>>
>>>I am not sure what you found but mine looked only by selective. I don't know
>>>what is the minimal number of moves for this position. Mate by selective was
>>>found 10 move deep. It took pretty long time - 66 seconds.
>>
>>Oh ... I didn't realize you couldn't read my output format, I'll explain:
>>
>><minutes:seconds>  <evaluation>  <ply>  <principal variation>
>>      06:18            WM9        11     Nxh3 Ndxf6 Bxf3 Ng4+ Qfxg4 ... Qxf3#
>>      20:52            WM8        11     Bxf3 Ndxf6 Bxg3 Ng4+ Qfxg4 ... Qxh2#
>
>It is good that you explained. I was lost in 'W', 'M' and only after your
>indication could find what it is.
>
>
>>The evaluation 'WM9' means 'W'hite 'M'ates in '9' moves, and WM8 ... you got it!
>>So Pretz first found a mate in 9, and after that on the same ply a mate in 8.
>>
>>I checked later today without hash, just to be sure, and I think the mate in 8
>>is correct. Also tried some different settings that made everything quite a bit
>>faster (just over 2 minutes for the mate in 9), but found nothing shorter than a
>
>For this position I actually went only 6 moves deep that took already 13 min.
>Branching factor was 13 and look like that it have tendency to diminish. Between
>four and five moves it was almost 16. My guess is that if the mate is there in 8
>moves then it could take around 3 hours to reach first solution. For now I am
>not that sure what to do first, look  seven moves deep, or go directly 8 moves
>for mate.
>
>>mate in 8.
>>
>>Maybe you can check with LLChess's brute force search? I started our Champion!
>>solver Chest on this problem a few minutes ago, but don't see a way to set the
>>size of the hash table(s) yet. The documentation mentions an -M switch, but
>>Chest doesn't seem to accept that in a DOS box under XP.
>
>It is good that you, at least, can use it. I am not at all knowledgeable of  all
>abreviations and expressions that are in its manual. So for me the best strategy
>for now is to wait for Chest future edition. Then it will be easy for me to
>recognize all his strange expressions by looking stright into his graphics
>interface.

Chest reported this:

8/8/3QQQQK/3nbrpn/3pQQBQ/3bQrqq/3qRqNB/3qRnNk w - -
 acn 807241484; acs 6185; bm Bxf3 Bxg3 Nxh3 Qfxf3 Qxf2; ce 32752; dm 8;
 id "leonid 1/10/01";
 pv Nxh3 Nhxf6 Bxg3 Ng8+ Qexg8 Bg7+ Q8xg7 gxh4 Qxf2 Rh5+ Qxh5 Qxf4+ Ngxf4 hxg3
Ng5#;

So I guess there are 5 possible key moves to a mate in 8! Nice to see Chest in
action on my pc for the first time.

Groetjes,
Paul

>>Hmmmm ... Heiner, hope you read this? It's now taking about 42MB of memory ...
>>started it like this: 'chest319 -b -Z8 x.epd'. Also tried -M350, but to no
>>avail.
>>
>>Oh ... and I did not find a mate for black in this position, and neither did
>>Pretz. :)



This page took 0 seconds to execute

Last modified: Thu, 15 Apr 21 08:11:13 -0700

Current Computer Chess Club Forums at Talkchess. This site by Sean Mintz.