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Subject: Re: One mate to solve.

Author: leonid

Date: 11:28:12 10/03/01

Go up one level in this thread


On October 03, 2001 at 12:08:07, Paul wrote:

>On October 02, 2001 at 23:04:12, leonid wrote:
>
>>On October 02, 2001 at 22:02:56, Paul wrote:
>>
>>>On October 02, 2001 at 20:00:24, leonid wrote:
>>>
>>>>On October 02, 2001 at 10:07:56, Paul wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>On October 01, 2001 at 12:56:43, leonid wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>Hello!
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Today I wanted to put some simple mate position. This one, at least, have very
>>>>>>unsophisticated shape.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>[D]8/8/3QQQQK/3nbrpn/3pQQBQ/3bQrqq/3qRqNB/3qRnNk w - -
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Please indicate your result.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>If you happened to have some version of Chess Master that do brute force search,
>>>>>>please find for me time that it take for him to find mate in 4 and 5 moves for
>>>>>>this position. I need this in order to have some idea what is his branching
>>>>>>factor. I tried to do this myself with CM5000, that I have, but found no
>>>>>>possibility to indicate my position. Since CM is the most performant and the
>>>>>>most frequently mentioned program that solve the mate, I would like to know his
>>>>>>basic mate solving capability.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Thanks,
>>>>>>Leonid.
>>>>>
>>>>>Hi!
>>>>
>>>>Hi!
>>>>
>>>>>Haven't got CM6000 installed at the moment, and don't remember if it's got a
>>>>>mate level search, but John Merlino is the best person to answer that.
>>>>>
>>>>>For Pretz this is a difficult problem, for now it finds this:
>>>>>
>>>>>06:18 WM9 11 Nxh3 Ndxf6 Bxf3 Ng4+ Qfxg4 Bg7+ Qxg7 Rf6+ Qgxf6 Bxe4 Nxf2+ Qxf2
>>>>>Nf4+ Bxf3 Qgxf3+ Qxf3 Qxf3#
>>>>>20:52 WM8 11 Bxf3 Ndxf6 Bxg3 Ng4+ Qfxg4 Bg7+ Qxg7 Rf6+ Qgxf6 Nh2 Nf4+ Nxf3
>>>>>Qgxh3+ Qh2 Qxh2#
>>>>
>>>>I am not sure what you found but mine looked only by selective. I don't know
>>>>what is the minimal number of moves for this position. Mate by selective was
>>>>found 10 move deep. It took pretty long time - 66 seconds.
>>>
>>>Oh ... I didn't realize you couldn't read my output format, I'll explain:
>>>
>>><minutes:seconds>  <evaluation>  <ply>  <principal variation>
>>>      06:18            WM9        11     Nxh3 Ndxf6 Bxf3 Ng4+ Qfxg4 ... Qxf3#
>>>      20:52            WM8        11     Bxf3 Ndxf6 Bxg3 Ng4+ Qfxg4 ... Qxh2#
>>
>>It is good that you explained. I was lost in 'W', 'M' and only after your
>>indication could find what it is.
>>
>>
>>>The evaluation 'WM9' means 'W'hite 'M'ates in '9' moves, and WM8 ... you got it!
>>>So Pretz first found a mate in 9, and after that on the same ply a mate in 8.
>>>
>>>I checked later today without hash, just to be sure, and I think the mate in 8
>>>is correct. Also tried some different settings that made everything quite a bit
>>>faster (just over 2 minutes for the mate in 9), but found nothing shorter than a
>>
>>For this position I actually went only 6 moves deep that took already 13 min.
>>Branching factor was 13 and look like that it have tendency to diminish. Between
>>four and five moves it was almost 16. My guess is that if the mate is there in 8
>>moves then it could take around 3 hours to reach first solution. For now I am
>>not that sure what to do first, look  seven moves deep, or go directly 8 moves
>>for mate.
>>
>>>mate in 8.
>>>
>>>Maybe you can check with LLChess's brute force search? I started our Champion!
>>>solver Chest on this problem a few minutes ago, but don't see a way to set the
>>>size of the hash table(s) yet. The documentation mentions an -M switch, but
>>>Chest doesn't seem to accept that in a DOS box under XP.
>>
>>It is good that you, at least, can use it. I am not at all knowledgeable of  all
>>abreviations and expressions that are in its manual. So for me the best strategy
>>for now is to wait for Chest future edition. Then it will be easy for me to
>>recognize all his strange expressions by looking stright into his graphics
>>interface.
>
>Chest reported this:
>
>8/8/3QQQQK/3nbrpn/3pQQBQ/3bQrqq/3qRqNB/3qRnNk w - -
> acn 807241484; acs 6185; bm Bxf3 Bxg3 Nxh3 Qfxf3 Qxf2; ce 32752; dm 8;
> id "leonid 1/10/01";
> pv Nxh3 Nhxf6 Bxg3 Ng8+ Qexg8 Bg7+ Q8xg7 gxh4 Qxf2 Rh5+ Qxh5 Qxf4+ Ngxf4 hxg3
>Ng5#;
>
>So I guess there are 5 possible key moves to a mate in 8! Nice to see Chest in
>action on my pc for the first time.


Very practical as well. I left this position for night 8 moves deep. Even after
8 hours response was not there. It could be that after 6 move my branching
factor jumped once again.

Cheers,
Leonid.




>Groetjes,
>Paul
>
>>>Hmmmm ... Heiner, hope you read this? It's now taking about 42MB of memory ...
>>>started it like this: 'chest319 -b -Z8 x.epd'. Also tried -M350, but to no
>>>avail.
>>>
>>>Oh ... and I did not find a mate for black in this position, and neither did
>>>Pretz. :)



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