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Subject: Re: New crap statement ? Perpetuum mobile(test positions for Deep Fritz)

Author: Uri Blass

Date: 14:08:28 10/04/01

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On October 04, 2001 at 14:49:37, Robert Hyatt wrote:

>On October 04, 2001 at 07:09:30, Uri Blass wrote:
>
>>On October 04, 2001 at 06:46:48, Sune Fischer wrote:
>>
>>>On October 04, 2001 at 04:56:08, Uri Blass wrote:
>>>
>>>>The difference is that the other side(I and Bruce) do not say that they know
>>>>that there is a super linear improvement but that we cannot say that it is
>>>>impossible with the known algorithm of today.
>>>>
>>>>I said that the only way is to investigate the problem by test positions in
>>>>order to see if programs can get a super linear improvement from 2 processors.
>>>
>>>But that is not the only way, you can also use logic.
>>>This is like explaning to an inventor why he can't make a perpetuum mobile
>>>machine. If he doesn't understand the laws of physics, does not know of energy
>>>conservation, then he will keep arguing till the day he die, that "we can not
>>>know for certain until we have tried everything".
>>>
>>>We _do_ know, there is proof and Bob has outlined it several times, but if you
>>>won't listen or understand, then we have a communication problem.
>>>
>>>-S.
>>
>>There is no proof when we do not know the source code of Deep fritz.
>
>
>
>Please go find _any_ book that discusses "the analysis of parallel algorithms"
>somewhere in it.  You will find a very detailed discussion of this stuff with
>mathematical analysis of why it is impossible.  It has nothing to do with a
>specific algorithm.
>
>It has _everything_ to do with the simple proof of the statement "A two-tape
>turing machine has no more computational power than a one-tape turing machine."
>
>Once you read and understand that, there is no need to discuss the concept
>further.  IE I _know_ there is no way to do a sort in less than O(N)
>complexity, because It takes N cycles just to read the input.  And in reality,
>I know that there is no way to do a sort in < o(N log N) cycles.  This has
>_also_ been proven beyond a shadow of a doubt.  To say "that isn't true because
>we have not tried all possible sort algorithms" won't fly.
>
>
>
>>
>>There is an agreement that a poor sequential algorithm can be more than 2 times
>>slower than a good parallel algorithm with 2 procesors.
>
>Only in special cases...
>
>>
>>We do not know that the algorithm of Deep Fritz for one processor is not poor
>>
>
>Who cares.  It is the _same_ algorithm used on 2 processors.  _exactly_ the
>same.  Same alpha/beta algorithm.  Same evaluation.  Same move ordering.  Etc..

Same move ordering does not seems to me to be truth.

Uri



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