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Subject: Re: BELCT 2001 discussion of the game zarkov-yace

Author: Uri Blass

Date: 08:00:12 10/06/01

Go up one level in this thread


On October 06, 2001 at 10:11:41, Dieter Buerssner wrote:

>On October 05, 2001 at 15:53:32, Uri Blass wrote:
>
>[Rearanged and snipped]
>
>>Zarkov4.5T - Yace
>>[D]1nr1rbk1/qp3ppp/4b3/pQ1pPpB1/N2P4/P1R2N2/1P3PPP/4R1K1 b - - 0 1
>
>>I think that yace blundered by 20...Bd7
>
>I thought about this as well. Here in few moves the score dropped by about 1.5
>pawns in few moves (pawn=0.8 in Yace). However, it seems that after 21. Qxd5,
>21...h6 was even worse. When I analyse the game from back to front (for about
>one minute each move), after 21...h6 I get (German notation, S->N, L->B, T->R,
>D->Q):
>
> 11.01	 1:01 	+1.41 	22.Txc8 Lxc8 23.Ld2 Ld7 24.Db3 b5 25.Sc3 b4 26.axb4 axb4
>27.Sd5 Sc6 28.Dc4 Tc8 29.Le3 (9.191.711) 148.7
>
>After 21...Bc6 I get similar scores, than you showed for Fritz.
>
>>Here is Deep Fritz's analysis
>>Deep Fritz needs some hours on p800 to avoid 20...Bd7
>
>Then Yace is at least in good company (also after reading Ernst's post) ...
>After 21...h6 I get the following:
>
>  9.01	 0:15 	+0.44 	21.Ld2 Txc3 22.Sxc3 Td8 23.Tc1 Sc6 24.Se2 Tc8 25.b4 axb4
>(1.892.588) 122.6
>  9.03	 0:20 	+0.45++ 	21.Txc8 Txc8 22.Ld2 Ld7 23.Db6 Sc6 24.Dxa7 Lxa3
>(2.498.144) 124.7
>  9.03	 0:21 	+0.54 	21.Txc8 Txc8 22.Ld2 Sc6 23.Sb6 Td8 24.Tc1 Le7 25.b4 a4
>(2.713.248) 124.0
>  9.54	 0:27 	+0.54 	21.Txc8 Txc8 22.Ld2 Sc6 23.Sb6 Td8 24.Tc1 Le7 25.b4 a4
>(3.502.052) 125.2
> 10.01	 0:40 	+0.67 	21.Txc8 Txc8 22.Sb6 hxg5 23.Sxc8 Lxc8 24.Sxg5 b6 25.Dxd5
>Dd7 26.Dc4 Lb7 (5.003.418) 125.0
> 10.54	 0:54 	+0.67 	21.Txc8 Txc8 22.Sb6 hxg5 23.Sxc8 Lxc8 24.Sxg5 b6 25.Dxd5
>Dd7 26.Dc4 Lb7 (6.898.065) 126.8
> 11.01	 1:07 	+0.67 	21.Txc8 Txc8 22.Sb6 hxg5 23.Sxc8 Lxc8 24.Sxg5 b6 25.Dxd5
>De7 26.Dc4 Lb7 27.Sf3 Lxf3 (8.703.943) 128.1
> 11.54	 1:41 	+0.67 	21.Txc8 Txc8 22.Sb6 hxg5 23.Sxc8 Lxc8 24.Sxg5 b6 25.Dxd5
>De7 26.Dc4 Lb7 27.Sf3 Lxf3 (13.563.372) 133.0
> 12.01	 3:29 	+0.52 	21.Txc8 Txc8 22.Ld2 Ld7 23.Db6 Da6 24.Dxa6 bxa6 25.Sb6 Tc2
>26.Tb1 Le6 27.Lxa5 Sc6 (27.052.046) 129.0
> 12.02	 4:43 	+0.53++ 	21.Ld2 Txc3 22.Lxc3 Sc6 23.Sb6 Da6 24.Dxa6 bxa6 25.Tc1
>Tb8 26.Sa4 Le7 27.Sc5 f4 (35.599.897) 125.3
> 12.02	 5:35 	+0.54 	21.Ld2 Txc3 22.Lxc3 Sc6 23.Sb6 Da6 24.Dxa6 bxa6 25.Tc1 Tb8
>26.Sa4 Tb5 (41.533.410) 123.9
> 12.54	 8:23 	+0.54 	21.Ld2 Txc3 22.Lxc3 Sc6 23.Sb6 Da6 24.Dxa6 bxa6 25.Tc1 Tb8
>26.Sa4 Tb5 (63.050.673) 125.1
> 13.01	11:59 	+0.50 	21.Ld2 Txc3 22.Lxc3 Sc6 23.Sb6 Td8 24.Tc1 Le7 25.b3 f6
>26.exf6 Lxf6 27.Te1 Lf7 28.a4 (89.295.123) 124.0
> 13.02	13:10 	+0.51++ 	21.Txc8 Txc8 22.Ld2 Ld7 23.Db6 Da6 24.Dxa6 bxa6 25.Sb6
>Tc2 26.Tb1 Le6 27.Lxa5 Ld6 (98.011.398) 124.0
> 13.02	16:16 	+0.52 	21.Txc8 Txc8 22.Ld2 Ld7 23.Db6 (120.829.623) 123.7
> 13.54	25:12 	+0.52 	21.Txc8 Txc8 22.Ld2 Ld7 23.Db6 (189.580.066) 125.3
> 14.01	35:33 	+0.52 	21.Txc8 Txc8 22.Ld2 Sc6 23.Sb6 Tb8 24.Tc1 g5 25.Lc3 Da6
>26.Db3 Sb4 27.Sa4 Sd3 (266.284.994) 124.7
> 14.54	56:31 	+0.52 	21.Txc8 Txc8 22.Ld2 Sc6 23.Sb6 Tb8 24.Tc1 g5 25.Lc3 Da6
>26.Db3 Sb4 27.Sa4 Sd3 (430.776.766) 127.0
> 15.01	82:01 	+0.51 	21.Txc8 Txc8 22.Ld2 Sc6 23.Sb6 Tb8 24.Tc1 g5 25.Sxd5 Lxd5
>26.Dxd5 g4 27.Sh4 Td8 28.Db5 Txd4 29.Le3 (613.901.494) 124.7
> 15.54	148:18 	+0.51 	21.Txc8 Txc8 22.Ld2 Sc6 23.Sb6 Tb8 24.Tc1 g5 25.Sxd5 Lxd5
>26.Dxd5 g4 27.Sh4 Td8 28.Db5 Txd4 29.Le3 (1.121.208.459) 125.9
> 16.01	226:42 	+0.39 	21.Txc8 Txc8 22.Ld2 Sc6 23.Sb6 Tb8 24.Tc1 g5 25.Lc3 Da6
>26.Db3 Sb4 27.Sa4 Sd3 (1.658.039.763) 121.8
> 16.02	294:38 	+0.40++ 	21.Ld2 Txc3 22.Sxc3 Td8 23.Tc1 Da6 24.Dxa6 bxa6
>(2.091.868.565) 118.3
> 16.02	362:40 	+0.41 	21.Ld2 Txc3 22.Sxc3 Td8 23.Tc1 Sc6 24.Se2 f6 25.exf6
>(2.535.344.699) 116.5
> 16.42	525:30 	+0.41 	21.Ld2 Txc3 22.Sxc3 Td8 23.Tc1 Sc6 24.Se2 f6 25.exf6
>(3.601.191.337) 114.2
>
>It seem not easy. From the programmer point of view, I cannot think of much what
>to do here. Perhaps, like I user once suggested "you must reach more depth".
>Well, if that's all :-)
>
>>I suspect that only material evaluation can find that 20...Bd7 is losing a pawn
>>when 20...h6 and it may be interesting to see if I am right.
>
>I cannot understand. You mean that h6 does not lose material? I tried for 10
>minutes, and there could be seen no loss of material for both moves.
>
>Regards,
>Dieter

Did you try only material evaluation and saw 0.00 for both moves.
If this is the case then I was wrong with my suspect.

I suspected that Bd7 lose material from only material evaluation and that yace
saw positional compensation for the pawn so it chose Bd7 but I have no program
with only material evaluation near me to verify if it is truth.

Bd7 let white to capture the pawn at d5.
I also saw that in part of the main lines of Deep Fritz white was a pawn up from
only material evaluation and this was the reason that I suspected that Bd7 is
losing material from only material evaluation point of view.

Uri



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