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Subject: Re: a mate to solve

Author: Paul

Date: 11:54:03 10/09/01

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On October 09, 2001 at 14:27:10, Uri Blass wrote:

>On October 09, 2001 at 14:21:18, Angrim wrote:
>
>>On October 09, 2001 at 13:01:13, Uri Blass wrote:
>>
>>>[D]8/1P6/8/5k2/2K4p/7r/1r4p1/6R1 b - - 0 61
>>>
>>>This position is from the game Tao-Deep Junior7 in the last WMCCC
>>>
>>>Chest need some hours on p200 to see mate in 10(I used chest by the way that was
>>>explained by paul some days ago
>>>
>>>see http://www.icdchess.com/forums/1/message.shtml?191857
>>>
>>>Solution:61...Rg3 62.Kd4 h3 63.Kd5 h2 64.b8Q Rxb8 65.Re1 Rd3+ 66.Kc4 h1Q 67.Re5+
>>>Kxe5 68.Kxd3 Qd1+ 69.Kc3 Rb3+ 70.Kc4 Qc2#
>>>
>>>15961 seconds,292,407,791 nodes
>>>
>>>In the game Deep Junior7 missed the right move(Rg3) but it did not help Tao that
>>>resigned after Rxb7.
>>>
>>>How much time does your program need to see mate in 10 with the full 5 piece
>>>tablebases and without tablebases?
>>>
>>>Uri
>>
>>Well, I don't have tablebases for standard chess, so just results
>>without tables.  This is the sort of mate that pn^2 search has the
>>most trouble with, since not only are the winning moves not forcing
>>moves, but there are lots and LOTS of forcing moves that don't win.
>>It will work out every possible series of pointless checks before it
>>thinks even 3 ply deep down a non-forcing line like Rg3.. after
>>about 1/2 hour it is working on lines that have a single non-forcing
>>move in them, and usually a huge series of forcing moves.
>>
>>On the other hand, my minmax searcher(which has piece values + mobility only)
>>found the right move at ply 2 and never changed its mind.
>>Guess Junior was too smart for its own good in that position.
>>
>>Angrim
>
>I suspect that Junior used tablebases and it saw another mate by tablebases.
>
>Capturing may be the faster way to get a tablebase mate.
>
>Uri

Yes, I suspect so ... mine sees a mate in 28 in 8 seconds with tablebases, a
number that drops later. But without tbs it takes minutes to see the mate in 10,
mine gives a different line:

Rg3 Kc5 h3 b8=Q Rxb8 Kd6 h2 Ra1 g1=Q Ra5+ Kf6 Ra6 Rb6+ Rxb6 Qxb6+ Kd7 Rd3+ Kc8
Rd8#

Paul



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