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Subject: Re: a mate to solve

Author: Dave Gomboc

Date: 00:35:34 10/10/01

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On October 09, 2001 at 21:51:01, Dann Corbit wrote:

>On October 09, 2001 at 21:26:54, Slater Wold wrote:
>[snip]
>>You would think.  But it looks like TB's *might* be hindering the discovery of a
>>quicker mate.
>
>For sure.  When there are a lot of pieces on the board, chess programs will
>simplify by trying direct exchanges.  They will even toss a queen for *no
>reason* except that it knows how to solve without the queen.
>
>Imagine that you have kqqqkr, and on the board we have kqqqqqKR.
>The chess engine will very likely toss out two queens, if it sees a sure mate
>using the kqqqkr tablebase.
>
>And why is it so hard to shake out of it?
>
>Because of alpha beta.  One thing about Alpha-beta, it knows a bird in the hand
>is worth two in the bush.  If I have a mate in 35, and another path might put me
>up 3 queens, it won't even consider the other path -- it will exit right away
>because it sees:
>If I chose door #1, I get a checkmate in 35 (value 32767-5)
>If I choose door #2, I get a 3 queen advantage (value +30)
>Therefore, choose door #1.  Do not continue to search until the next iteration.
>Also, if I have an advantage of a sure checkmate, any other choice will look
>like a massive loser if it is not a shorter checkmate.
>
>Now, there will be 3 queen advantages that lose (pretty rare of course).
>
>Tablebase wins can be clear beyond hideous all the way to commical.  But they
>will be absolutely certain to win, and so the goal is achieved.

As your own example shows, this is not really a problem with alpha-beta, but
rather the fault of an evaluation function that gives a higher value to a
non-special (e.g. not stalemate) KQQKR position than to a non-special KQQQQKR
position.

Dave



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