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Subject: Re: L.D.Evans-Haik,London 1978 (bob, please look)

Author: Simon Finn

Date: 02:10:13 10/20/01

Go up one level in this thread


On October 18, 2001 at 23:34:45, Slater Wold wrote:

>On October 18, 2001 at 22:55:02, Dann Corbit wrote:
>
>>On October 18, 2001 at 21:01:46, Slater Wold wrote:
>>
>>>On October 18, 2001 at 09:14:43, José Antônio Fabiano Mendes wrote:
>>>
>>>>      L.D.Evans-Haik,London 1978 [unusual and difficult position]
>>>>      [D]8/p2P3P/k7/8/8/2q5/6PK/1Q6 b
>>>>       "Surprisingly Black can deliver perpetual check or force stalemate."

I'm not sure if this is literally true - I think White can force a drawn KQPKQP
endgame instead.

>>>>    Source:"Tactical Chess Endings",by GM John Nunn,page 35
>>>
>>>Talk about a bummer..............
>>>
>>>EPD Kit revision date: 1996.04.21
>>>found computer opening book file [./bookc.bin].
>>>max threads set to 2
>>>hash table memory = 768M bytes.
>>>pawn hash table memory = 40M bytes.
>>>EGTB cache memory = 32M bytes.
>>>6 piece tablebase files found
>>>26330kb of RAM used for TB indices and decompression tables
>>>choose from 2 best moves.
>>>
>>>
>>>Crafty v18.12 (2 cpus)
>>>
>>>White(1): st 3600
>>>search time set to 3600.00.
>>>White(1): epdpfga drawtest.epd drawtest.out
>>>PFGA: EPD record: 1
>>>end-game phase
>>>              clearing hash tables
>>>              time surplus   0.00  time limit 60:00 (60:00)
>>>         nss  depth   time  score   variation (1)
>>>starting thread 1
>>>                7     0.14   6.02   1. ... Qe5+ 2. Kh3 Qh5+ 3. Kg3 Qe5+
>>>                                    4. Kg4 Qd4+ 5. Kg5 Qd2+ 6. Kh5 Qd4
>>>                                    7. Qg6+ Kb7 8. g4
>>>                7->   0.16   6.02   1. ... Qe5+ 2. Kh3 Qh5+ 3. Kg3 Qe5+
>>>                                    4. Kg4 Qd4+ 5. Kg5 Qd2+ 6. Kh5 Qd4
>>>                                    7. Qg6+ Kb7 8. g4
>>>                8     0.29   5.92   1. ... Qe5+ 2. Kh3 Qh5+ 3. Kg3 Qe5+
>>>                                    4. Kg4 Qd4+ 5. Kg5 Qe3+ 6. Kf6 Qd4+
>>>                                    7. Ke6 Qc4+ 8. Ke5 Qc7+ 9. Ke6 Qd8
>>>                8->   0.33   5.92   1. ... Qe5+ 2. Kh3 Qh5+ 3. Kg3 Qe5+
>>>                                    4. Kg4 Qd4+ 5. Kg5 Qe3+ 6. Kf6 Qd4+
>>>                                    7. Ke6 Qc4+ 8. Ke5 Qc7+ 9. Ke6 Qd8
>>>                9     0.63   5.92   1. ... Qe5+ 2. Kh3 Qh5+ 3. Kg3 Qe5+
>>>                                    4. Kg4 Qd4+ 5. Kg5 Qe3+ 6. Kf6 Qd4+
>>>                                    7. Ke6 Qc4+ 8. Ke5 Qc3+ 9. Kd5 Qa5+
>>>                                    10. Ke6 Qd8
>>>                9->   0.72   5.92   1. ... Qe5+ 2. Kh3 Qh5+ 3. Kg3 Qe5+
>>>                                    4. Kg4 Qd4+ 5. Kg5 Qe3+ 6. Kf6 Qd4+
>>>                                    7. Ke6 Qc4+ 8. Ke5 Qc3+ 9. Kd5 Qa5+
>>>                                    10. Ke6 Qd8
>>>               10     1.24   5.82   1. ... Qe5+ 2. Kh3 Qh5+ 3. Kg3 Qe5+
>>>                                    4. Kg4 Qd4+ 5. Kf3 Qc3+ 6. Kf4 Qd2+
>>>                                    7. Ke5 Qc3+ 8. Ke6 Qc4+ 9. Ke5 Qc5+
>>>                                    10. Kf4 Qd6+ 11. Kf3 Qa3+ <HT>
>>>               10->   1.33   5.82   1. ... Qe5+ 2. Kh3 Qh5+ 3. Kg3 Qe5+
>>>                                    4. Kg4 Qd4+ 5. Kf3 Qc3+ 6. Kf4 Qd2+
>>>                                    7. Ke5 Qc3+ 8. Ke6 Qc4+ 9. Ke5 Qc5+
>>>                                    10. Kf4 Qd6+ 11. Kf3 Qa3+ <HT>
>>>               11     2.30   5.82   1. ... Qe5+ 2. Kh3 Qh5+ 3. Kg3 Qe5+
>>>                                    4. Kg4 Qd4+ 5. Kf3 Qc3+ 6. Kf4 Qd2+
>>>                                    7. Ke5 Qc3+ 8. Ke6 Qc4+ <HT>
>>>               11->   2.71   5.82   1. ... Qe5+ 2. Kh3 Qh5+ 3. Kg3 Qe5+
>>>                                    4. Kg4 Qd4+ 5. Kf3 Qc3+ 6. Kf4 Qd2+
>>>                                    7. Ke5 Qc3+ 8. Ke6 Qc4+ <HT>
>>>               12     5.02   5.82   1. ... Qe5+ 2. Kh3 Qh5+ 3. Kg3 Qe5+
>>>                                    4. Kg4 Qd4+ 5. Kf3 Qc3+ 6. Kf4 Qd2+
>>>                                    7. Ke5 Qc3+ 8. Kd5 Qd2+ 9. Ke6 Qe3+
>>>                                    10. Kf6 Qd4+ <HT>
>>>               12->   5.50   5.82   1. ... Qe5+ 2. Kh3 Qh5+ 3. Kg3 Qe5+
>>>                                    4. Kg4 Qd4+ 5. Kf3 Qc3+ 6. Kf4 Qd2+
>>>                                    7. Ke5 Qc3+ 8. Kd5 Qd2+ 9. Ke6 Qe3+
>>>                                    10. Kf6 Qd4+ <HT>
>>>               13     7.79     ++   1. ... Qe5+!!
>>>               13    13.49   4.22   1. ... Qe5+ 2. Kh3 Qh5+ 3. Kg3 Qe5+
>>>                                    4. Kh4 Qe7+ 5. Kh5 Qc5+ 6. Kh6 Qf8+
>>>                                    7. Kg5 Qe7+ 8. Kf4 Qd6+ 9. Ke3 Qg3+
>>>                                    10. Kd2 Qxg2+ 11. Ke3 Qg3+ 12. Kd4
>>>                                    Qd6+ 13. Kc4 Qc7+ 14. Kb4 Qd8
>>>               13->  14.55   4.22   1. ... Qe5+ 2. Kh3 Qh5+ 3. Kg3 Qe5+
>>>                                    4. Kh4 Qe7+ 5. Kh5 Qc5+ 6. Kh6 Qf8+
>>>                                    7. Kg5 Qe7+ 8. Kf4 Qd6+ 9. Ke3 Qg3+
>>>                                    10. Kd2 Qxg2+ 11. Ke3 Qg3+ 12. Kd4
>>>                                    Qd6+ 13. Kc4 Qc7+ 14. Kb4 Qd8
>>>               14    25.82     ++   1. ... Qe5+!!
>>>               14    27.55   2.00   1. ... Qe5+ 2. Kh3 Qe6+ 3. g4 Qe3+
>>>                                    4. Kh2 Qf4+ 5. Kg2 Qxg4+ 6. Kf2 Qf4+
>>>                                    7. Ke2 Qg4+ 8. Ke3 Qg3+ 9. Kd4 Qd6+
>>>                                    10. Ke4 Qb4+ 11. Kd5 Qxb1 12. h8=Q
>>>                                    Qa2+ 13. Kc6 Qc2+ 14. Kd6
>>>               14->  29.02   2.00   1. ... Qe5+ 2. Kh3 Qe6+ 3. g4 Qe3+
>>>                                    4. Kh2 Qf4+ 5. Kg2 Qxg4+ 6. Kf2 Qf4+
>>>                                    7. Ke2 Qg4+ 8. Ke3 Qg3+ 9. Kd4 Qd6+
>>>                                    10. Ke4 Qb4+ 11. Kd5 Qxb1 12. h8=Q
>>>                                    Qa2+ 13. Kc6 Qc2+ 14. Kd6
>>>               15    32.80   2.00   1. ... Qe5+ 2. Kh3 Qe6+ 3. g4 Qe3+
>>>                                    4. Kh2 Qf4+ 5. Kg2 Qxg4+ 6. Kf2 Qf4+
>>>                                    7. Ke2 Qg4+ 8. Ke3 Qg3+ 9. Kd4 Qd6+
>>>                                    10. Ke4 Qb4+ 11. Kd5 Qxb1 12. h8=Q
>>>                                    Qa2+ 13. Kd6 Qd2+ 14. Kc7 Qc2+ <HT>
>>>               15->  34.79   2.00   1. ... Qe5+ 2. Kh3 Qe6+ 3. g4 Qe3+
>>>                                    4. Kh2 Qf4+ 5. Kg2 Qxg4+ 6. Kf2 Qf4+
>>>                                    7. Ke2 Qg4+ 8. Ke3 Qg3+ 9. Kd4 Qd6+
>>>                                    10. Ke4 Qb4+ 11. Kd5 Qxb1 12. h8=Q
>>>                                    Qa2+ 13. Kd6 Qd2+ 14. Kc7 Qc2+ <HT>
>>>               16    46.88     --   1. ... Qe5+
>>>              time=60:01  cpu=201%  mat=2  n=1693306751  fh=99%  nps=470k
>>>              ext-> chk=1363197943 cap=274706 pp=267447 1rep=117221890 mate=2380
>>>
>>>              predicted=0  nodes=1693306751  evals=7323296
>>>              endgame tablebase-> probes done=48149  successful=4738
>>>              hashing-> trans/ref=73%  pawn=99%  used=14%
>>>              SMP->  split=4869  stop=472  data=13/32  cpu=120:40  elap=60:01
>>>Black(1):
>>>
>>>
>>>Fails low @ 46 seconds, and can't resolve it in 59 minutes.  :(
>>
>>This looks like a bug.  That position should never fail low, but always fail
>>high.

Why? The position is ultimately drawn, but that doesn't mean there won't be some
nasty shocks on the way.

>>
>>Either that, or crafty may have found some strange, suicidal attack that
>>succeeds.
>
>If I had to guess, I'd say it'll find something.  I did it with 10 minutes at
>first, and it did this same thing.  59 minutes to resolve a fail low _does_ seem
>a tad long.  Perhaps Bob can help here.

I had a long look at this position yesterday.

White will win if he can get his king to a1 - this allows him to
interpose the queen and eventually kill the checks.

To prevent this, Black has to answer Ka2 with Qa4+/Qa5+ and Kb2 with Qd4+/e5+.

This requirement restricts where Black can check when the White king is on other
squares too.

I think (but I'm not 100% sure) that answering Ke3 with Qg3+ loses
because the White king can eventually get to a1.

Crafty may just have discovered this and needs to spend a
lot of time finding an alternative system of defence that works.
(Black should arrange things to answer Ke3 with Qc5+, for example.)

Simon

>
>I can give it more time, if requested.






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