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Subject: Re: Distance-to-mate vs Best-move tables

Author: Robert Hyatt

Date: 20:29:00 10/22/01

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On October 22, 2001 at 22:35:43, Ratko V Tomic wrote:

>>When searching and you hit the tablebase deep in the tree, all you get
>>is the "best move" for that position.  How do you differentiate between
>>the _thousands_ of tablebase hits you get to choose the shortest mate?
>>The engine has to choose between multiple paths that lead to tablebase
>>positions.  How does it choose _which_ path to follow???
>
>You would follow up the "best-move" for each side until you
>either find cached distance-to-mate value or reach the
>mate/draw (which you could save for later searches). The
>distance-to-mate is implicit in the best-move table, it just
>takes a bit of calculation (as do Huffman or other decoding
>from compressed tables or, for that matter, any leaf node evaluator).
>

That was my point.  A normal EGTB hit is the end of the work.  This
will require another 100 EGTB reads if it is a mate in 50.  That
would absolutely crush performance and weaken the program to the point
it would be far stronger without the EGTB's that have to be used like that.



>So, indeed this does trade off some time for space, since the
>best-move, while needing iteration to obtain the position value,
>it can benefit cummulatively from any endgame knowledge/rules one
>can extract from human endgame theory or via computer based
>pattern/dictionary extractor (done, of course, during the
>contruction of such tables, not during the play).
>
>Distance-to-mate has no simple relation to patterns in positions
>(since it is a result of multistep iterations over highly nonlinear
>functions), while the best-move has more local nature, immediately
>related to the position at hand and its patterns.
>
>A good analogy would be billiards, where distance-to-mate gives you
>final outcome after large number of collisions, while the best-move
>tells you how to aim the shot given the layout of the balls. While
>the former is closer to what one may wish ultimately to know, the
>latter is closer to what you have in front of you, thus it is closer
>related to the patterns of the existent layout (therefore it can
>compress better).
>
>Additionally, for conventional chess, the "best-move" need not be the
>shortest distance to mate, since a point is a point, however many
>moves it takes you to win it (after all computers don't tire out; for
>human player it may matter how quickly they can finish off the opponent
>if they need to play next game hours later).
>
>Thus, if the move generator used by the best-move decoder can produce
>with high probability move which wins (or holds draw) with certainty,
>as far as program's rating/"strength" is concerned, it doesn't matter
>that the move isn't the fastest way to mate. The program will benefit
>more from resulting space saving, due to the wider range of endgames
>accessible (and may still end up faster since additional memory
>paging costs probably much more than the iterations I suggested).
>
>The exact distance-to-mate can serve as a valid leaf value only
>for reasarch on endgames, combinatorics, game theory, etc. But
>it doesn't map directly (or exclusively) into program's
>rating/strength in the conventional chess.



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