Author: Uri Blass
Date: 11:11:39 10/26/01
Go up one level in this thread
On October 26, 2001 at 13:15:39, Ed Schröder wrote: >On October 26, 2001 at 08:21:04, Uri Blass wrote: > >>[D]8/5P2/4K2k/8/1P2p2p/p7/6R1/5r2 b - - 0 55 bm h3 >> >>Fritz7 played 56...e3 and lost against Shredder5.32 when 56...h3 is enough for a >>draw. >> >>I believe that Fritz7 lost because it overevaluated passed pawns and evaluated >>it's passed pawns as more than the white rook. >> >>Deep Fritz also needs some minutes to fail low on 56...e3 and I am interested to >>know if Deep Fritz is faster or slower than Fritz7 in finding 56...h3 >> >>Deep Fritz(PIII850,64 mbytes hash with all the 4 piece tablebases and part of >>the 5 piece tablebases including KR vs KPP) needs depth 19 and 7 minutes and 20 >>seconds to fail low on 56...e3 >> >>It solves the fail low after 9 minutes and 38 seconds with score of 3.81 for >>white and after 16:28 it changes it's mind to Rf4(probably another losing move). >> >>I may try bigger hash because big hash tables may be important in endgames but I >>doubt if it is going to help here. >> >>There are other programs that need 0 seconds to find 56...h3. >> >>Uri > > >That's all very weird, I see 2 things you can do to trace the bug: > >a) turn off null-move > >b) turn off table bases > >It must be a bug, e3 is a blunder, h3 is an easy draw. > >Ed Deep Fritz can find after a long search that e3 is a blunder so it seems that the problem is in evaluation It is not a null move problem. Deep Fritz has the sme problem with selectivity=0(I told it also not to use tablebases but for some reason it insist to use them Here is the analysis of Deep Fritz with 64 Mbytes hash tables and with 192 Mbytes hash tables. It seems that big hash tables are important to help it to find h3 faster 64 Mbytes hash tables New position [D]8/5P2/4K2k/8/1P2p2p/p7/6R1/5r2 b - - 0 1 Analysis by Deep Fritz: 1...Rxf7-- ³ (-0.28) Depth: 1/3 00:00:00 1...Rxf7-- 2.Kxf7 ² (0.59) Depth: 1/3 00:00:00 1...h3! = (0.25) Depth: 1/5 00:00:00 1...h3! -+ (-1.47) Depth: 1/5 00:00:00 1...h3 2.Rh2 -+ (-1.41) Depth: 2/6 00:00:00 1...h3-- µ (-1.06) Depth: 3/9 00:00:00 1...h3-- 2.Rh2 Rf3 3.f8Q+ Rxf8 = (-0.25) Depth: 3/9 00:00:00 1...Kh5! ³ (-0.28) Depth: 3/10 00:00:00 1kN 1...Kh5! 2.Re2 Rf4 µ (-1.00) Depth: 3/10 00:00:00 1kN 1...Kh5-- ³ (-0.69) Depth: 4/9 00:00:00 1kN 1...Kh5-- ³ (-0.69) Depth: 4/11 00:00:00 1kN 1...Kh5-- ³ (-0.38) Depth: 5/11 00:00:00 2kN 1...Kh5-- 2.Ke7 h3 3.Ra2 Kg6 4.f8Q = (-0.16) Depth: 5/12 00:00:00 4kN 1...Kh5 2.Ra2 Kg6 3.Rg2+ Kh6 4.Rg4 a2 5.Rxh4+ Kg7 = (0.06) Depth: 6/14 00:00:00 9kN 1...Rf3! = (0.03) Depth: 6/14 00:00:00 12kN 1...h3! = (0.00) Depth: 6/15 00:00:00 15kN 1...h3! 2.Rh2 Rf3 3.Rxh3+ Kg7 4.Rxf3 = (-0.06) Depth: 6/15 00:00:00 18kN 1...h3 2.Rg1 Rf4 3.Rg4 Rxf7 4.Kxf7 = (-0.09) Depth: 7/16 00:00:00 36kN 1...h3 2.Rg3 h2 3.Rh3+ Kg7 4.Rg3+ Kh7 5.Rh3+ Kg6 = (-0.19) Depth: 8/17 00:00:00 61kN 1...h3-- = (0.12) Depth: 9/19 00:00:00 83kN 1...h3-- 2.Rg3 h2 3.Rh3+ Kg7 = (0.00) Depth: 9/20 00:00:00 108kN 1...e3! = (0.12) Depth: 9/20 00:00:00 242kN 1...e3! 2.Re2 Rf3 3.Rh2 Kg6 4.Rg2+ Kh5 5.Ra2 = (-0.03) Depth: 9/20 00:00:00 320kN 1...e3 2.Re2 Kg7 3.Rg2+ Kh7 4.Rh2 Kg6 5.Rg2+ = (-0.09) Depth: 10/21 00:00:00 422kN 1...e3 2.Re2 Kg7 3.Rg2+ Kh7 4.Rh2 Kg6 5.Rg2+ = (-0.09) Depth: 11/24 00:00:01 678kN, tb=3 1...e3 2.Re2 Kg7 3.Rg2+ Kh7 4.Rh2 Kg6 5.Rg2+ = (-0.09) Depth: 12/24 00:00:01 1181kN, tb=9 1...e3 2.Re2 a2 3.Rxa2 h3 4.Re2 Kg7 5.Rxe3 Rf6+ 6.Kd5 h2 7.Rh3 ³ (-0.28) Depth: 13/28 00:00:03 2720kN, tb=34 1...e3 2.Re2 a2 3.Rxa2 h3 4.Re2 Kg7 5.Rxe3 Rf6+ 6.Kd5 h2 7.Rh3 ³ (-0.28) Depth: 14/30 00:00:06 4977kN, tb=70 1...e3 2.Re2 a2 3.Rxa2 h3 4.Re2 Kg7 5.Rxe3 Rf6+ 6.Kd5 h2 7.Rh3 = (-0.19) Depth: 15/31 00:00:15 11230kN, tb=299 1...e3 2.Re2 a2 3.Rxa2 h3 4.Re2 Kg7 5.Rxe3 Rf6+ 6.Ke5 h2 7.Rh3 = (-0.03) Depth: 16/34 00:00:34 24562kN, tb=837 1...e3 2.Re2 a2 3.Rxa2 h3 4.Rh2 Kg6 5.Rxh3 e2 6.Rg3+ Kh7 7.Rh3+ = (0.00) Depth: 17/37 00:01:21 57072kN, tb=2363 1...e3 2.Re2 a2 3.Rxa2 h3 4.Rh2 Kg6 5.Rxh3 e2 6.Rg3+ Kh7 7.Rh3+ = (0.00) Depth: 18/37 00:02:51 122078kN, tb=5569 1...e3-- ² (0.47) Depth: 19/39 00:07:20 320728kN, tb=14142 1...e3-- 2.Ke7 h3 3.Rg1 e2 4.f8Q+ Rxf8 5.Kxf8 h2 6.Rh1 Kg5 7.b5 +- (3.81) Depth: 19/39 00:09:38 430983kN, tb=16749 1...Rf4! +- (3.78) Depth: 19/40 00:16:28 750976kN, tb=28240 1...Rf4! 2.Rg4 Rf2 3.Rxh4+ Kg7 4.Rg4+ Kh7 5.Rg2 Rxg2 6.f8Q a2 7.Qf5+ +- (2.97) Depth: 19/41 00:25:39 1128191kN, tb=38611 1...h3! +- (2.94) Depth: 19/41 00:28:29 1233568kN, tb=39528 (blass, tel-aviv 26.10.2001) Deep Fritz 192 Mbytes New position 8/5P2/4K2k/8/1P2p2p/p7/6R1/5r2 b - - 0 1 Analysis by Deep Fritz: 1...Rxf7-- ³ (-0.28) Depth: 1/3 00:00:00 1...Rxf7-- 2.Kxf7 ² (0.59) Depth: 1/3 00:00:00 1...h3! = (0.25) Depth: 1/5 00:00:00 1...h3! -+ (-1.47) Depth: 1/5 00:00:00 1...h3 2.Rh2 -+ (-1.41) Depth: 2/6 00:00:00 1...h3-- µ (-1.06) Depth: 3/9 00:00:00 1...h3-- 2.Rh2 Rf3 3.f8Q+ Rxf8 = (-0.25) Depth: 3/9 00:00:00 1...Kh5! ³ (-0.28) Depth: 3/10 00:00:00 1kN 1...Kh5! 2.Re2 Rf4 µ (-1.00) Depth: 3/10 00:00:00 1kN 1...Kh5-- ³ (-0.69) Depth: 4/9 00:00:00 1kN 1...Kh5-- ³ (-0.69) Depth: 4/11 00:00:00 1kN 1...Kh5-- ³ (-0.38) Depth: 5/11 00:00:00 2kN 1...Kh5-- 2.Ke7 h3 3.Ra2 Kg6 4.f8Q = (-0.16) Depth: 5/12 00:00:00 4kN 1...Kh5 2.Ra2 Kg6 3.Rg2+ Kh6 4.Rg4 a2 5.Rxh4+ Kg7 = (0.06) Depth: 6/14 00:00:00 9kN 1...Rf3! = (0.03) Depth: 6/14 00:00:00 12kN 1...h3! = (0.00) Depth: 6/15 00:00:00 15kN 1...h3! 2.Rh2 Rf3 3.Rxh3+ Kg7 4.Rxf3 = (-0.06) Depth: 6/15 00:00:00 18kN 1...h3 2.Rg1 Rf4 3.Rg4 Rxf7 4.Kxf7 = (-0.09) Depth: 7/16 00:00:00 36kN 1...h3 2.Rg3 h2 3.Rh3+ Kg7 4.Rg3+ Kh7 5.Rh3+ Kg6 = (-0.19) Depth: 8/17 00:00:00 61kN 1...h3-- = (0.12) Depth: 9/19 00:00:00 83kN 1...h3-- 2.Rg3 h2 3.Rh3+ Kg7 = (0.00) Depth: 9/20 00:00:00 108kN 1...e3! = (0.12) Depth: 9/20 00:00:00 242kN 1...e3! 2.b5 h3 3.Re2 Kg5 4.Rxe3 h2 5.Rh3 a2 6.Rg3+ Kh6 = (-0.16) Depth: 9/20 00:00:00 325kN 1...e3 2.Rh2 Kg6 3.Rg2+ Kh5 4.b5 h3 5.Ra2 Kg6 = (-0.13) Depth: 10/22 00:00:01 469kN 1...e3 2.Rh2 Kg6 3.Rg2+ Kh5 4.Rh2 Rf4 5.b5 Kg6 6.Rg2+ Kh7 7.Ra2 = (-0.09) Depth: 11/23 00:00:01 698kN, tb=3 1...e3 2.Rh2 Kg6 3.Rg2+ Kh7 4.Rh2 Kg6 5.Rg2+ Kh7 6.Rh2 Kg6 7.Rg2+ = (0.00) Depth: 12/26 00:00:02 1188kN, tb=15 1...e3! = (-0.16) Depth: 13/25 00:00:04 2686kN, tb=54 1...e3! 2.Rh2 a2 3.Rxa2 h3 4.Re2 Kg7 5.Rxe3 Rf6+ 6.Kd5 h2 7.Rh3 ³ (-0.28) Depth: 13/26 00:00:05 3298kN, tb=59 1...e3 2.Rh2 a2 3.Rxa2 h3 4.Re2 Kg7 5.Rxe3 Rf6+ 6.Kd5 h2 7.Rh3 ³ (-0.28) Depth: 14/31 00:00:08 5301kN, tb=107 1...e3 2.Rh2 a2 3.Rxa2 h3 4.Re2 Kg7 5.Rxe3 Rf6+ 6.Kd5 h2 7.Rh3 = (-0.19) Depth: 15/30 00:00:15 10032kN, tb=262 1...e3 2.Rh2 a2 3.Rxa2 h3 4.Re2 Kg7 5.Rxe3 Rf6+ 6.Ke5 h2 7.Rh3 = (-0.03) Depth: 16/33 00:00:31 21100kN, tb=640 1...e3 2.Rh2 Kg7 3.Rg2+ Kh7 4.Rh2 Kg6 = (0.12) Depth: 17/34 00:01:30 61912kN, tb=2662 1...e3-- ² (0.44) Depth: 18/36 00:02:32 106183kN, tb=4241 1...e3-- ² (0.44) Depth: 18/36 00:02:46 115639kN, tb=4925 1...h3! ² (0.41) Depth: 18/36 00:03:49 160206kN, tb=7161 1...h3! 2.Rg3 h2 3.Rh3+ Kg7 4.Rg3+ Kh8 5.Rh3+ = (0.00) Depth: 18/36 00:05:10 217354kN, tb=10549 1...h3 2.Rg3 h2 3.Rh3+ Kg7 4.Rg3+ Kh8 5.Rh3+ Kg7 6.Rg3+ Kh8 7.Rh3+ = (0.00) Depth: 19/38 00:07:21 314568kN, tb=14779 1...h3 2.Rg3 h2 3.Rh3+ Kg7 4.Rg3+ Kh8 5.Rh3+ Kg7 6.Rg3+ Kh8 7.Rh3+ = (0.00) Depth: 20/41 00:16:57 614409kN, tb=31041 1...h3 2.Rg3 h2 3.Rh3+ Kg7 4.Rg3+ Kh8 5.Rh3+ Kg7 6.Rg3+ Kh8 7.Rh3+ = (0.00) Depth: 21/45 00:47:46 1550624kN, tb=75403 (blass, tel-aviv 26.10.2001) Uri
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