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Subject: Re: Kasparov vs Deep Blue, DIEP not as bad as DeepBlue

Author: Uri Blass

Date: 11:49:42 10/30/01

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On October 30, 2001 at 13:32:31, Robert Hyatt wrote:

>On October 30, 2001 at 07:24:39, Vincent Diepeveen wrote:
>
>>46:04 0 0 327781499 (111597415) 14 -0.078 Bh5-g6 Nf1-d2 Qb6-c7 a3-a4 Kg8-h7 Ne3-
>>c4 Nd7-b6 Nc4xa5 Bc5-b4 c2-c3 Bb4xa5 b3-b4 Nb6-d7 b4xa5 Nd7-c5 h3-h4
>>
>>Diep doesn't consider the bad move g5-g4.
>>
>
>
>
>
>Diep also doesn't _understand_ the position.  It thinks black is worse by
>a very tiny bit. (-.078).  That is a strong _understatement_ here.  Black is
>nearly losing.

It is nor clear and the only way to test it is by games.
Can you win diep in a correspondence game after Diep's move Bg6?
>
>>
>>For those who tactical mistakes that's definitely true. For GMs that's not
>>exactly true though. They got their GM because they can play a perfect game!
>>
>
>
>
>I have _never_ seen a GM play a "perfect game"...
>
>
>>>ChessMaster 8000 output:
>>>
>>>Time	Depth	Score	Positions	Moves
>>>0:00	1/3	-0.04	2059		1...Bd4 2. Nd2 Bg6
>>>0:00	2/6	0.02	42104		1...Bd4 2. Nd2 Bg6 3. c3 Bc5 4.
>>>					Qc2 Nf8
>>>0:01	3/7	0.16	124547		1...Bd4 2. Nd2 Bg6 3. c3 Bc5 4.
>>>					Qc2 Nf8 5. Ndc4
>>>0:03	3/7	0.09	268740		1...g4 2. h4 Bg6 3. Qd2 Nf8 4.
>>>					Qe2 a4 5. Nd2 Bxe3 6. fxe3 axb3
>>>					7. cxb3
>>>0:06	3/8	0.10	598533		1...g4 2. Nd2 gxh3 3. Bxh3 Qc7
>>>					4. c4 Bd4 5. Nf5 Nc5 6. Nxh6+ Kg7
>>>0:10	3/8	0.02	981004		1...Bg6 2. Nd2 Qc7 3. Bc3 b5 4.
>>>					b4 Bd4 5. Qb2
>>>0:18	4/9	0.15	1798706		1...Bg6 2. Nd2 Qc7 3. Bc3 Bd4 4.
>>>					Qb2 Nb6 5. Rad1 Bxc3 6. Qxc3
>>>1:10	4/10	0.14	6627204		1...Bg6 2. Nd2 Qc7 3. Bc3 Bd4 4.
>>>					Qb2 Nb6 5. Rad1 Qe7 6. Nf5 Bxf5
>>>					7. exf5 Bxc3 8. Qxc3
>>>4:05	5/11	0.11	24328715	1...Bg6 2. Nd2 Qc7 3. Qd1 Bd4 4.
>>>					c3 Ba7 5. b4 Nb6 6. Qe2 Qd6 7.
>>>					Nec4 Nxc4 8. Nxc4
>>>14:02	6/12	0.03	88355386	1...Bg6 2. Nd2 Qc7 3. Bc3 Bd4 4.
>>>					Qb2 Nc5 5. Nf5 Bxf5 6. exf5 Qd7
>>>					7. b4 Bxc3 8. Qxc3 Qxd2 9. Qxc5
>>
>>>I suspect that more interesting would be the analysis of these:
>>>
>>[D]3rr1k1/1p1n1p2/1qp2n1p/p1b1p2b/4P1p1/PP2N1PP/1BP2PB1/R1Q1RNK1 w - -
>>position after g4?
>>
>>DIEP sees this as advantage for white directly from the start:
>>
>>00:00 0 0 56 (0) 1 0.622 h3xg4 Bh5xg4
>>00:00 0 0 75 (0) 1 0.654 Ne3-f5
>>00:00 0 0 1065 (0) 2 -2.149 Ne3-f5 Bc5xf2 Kg1-h2 Bf2xe1 Qc1xe1
>>++ h3-g4
>>00:00 0 0 1133 (0) 2 0.622 h3xg4 Bh5xg4
>>00:00 0 0 2459 (173) 3 1.325 h3xg4 Bc5xe3 Nf1xe3 Bh5xg4
>>00:00 0 0 6277 (363) 4 0.506 h3xg4 Bh5-g6 b3-b4 a5xb4 a3xb4 Bc5xb4
>>00:00 0 0 25704 (5654) 5 0.966 h3xg4 Bh5-g6 g4-g5 h6xg5 Ne3-c4
>>00:00 0 0 56414 (11138) 6 0.462 h3xg4 Nf6xg4 Ne3xg4 Bh5xg4 Nf1-e3 Nd7-f6
>>00:02 0 0 204394 (48885) 7 0.460 h3xg4 Nf6xg4 Ne3xg4 Bh5xg4 Nf1-e3 h6-h5 Ne3xg4
>>h5xg4
>>++ f1-d2
>>00:03 0 0 343021 (86294) 7 0.696 Nf1-d2 Qb6-a7 b3-b4 Bc5-f8 Ne3-f5 a5-a4 Nd2-c4
>>
>>00:05 0 0 512604 (116944) 8 0.400 Nf1-d2 Qb6-a7 Nd2-c4 g4xh3 Bg2xh3 Kg8-f8 Bb2-c
>>3 b7-b6
>>++ h3-g4
>>00:07 0 0 730577 (186296) 8 0.548 h3xg4 Bh5-g6 b3-b4 a5xb4 a3xb4 Bc5xb4 Ne3-c4 Q
>>b6-c5 Qc1xh6 Qc5xc4
>>00:25 0 0 2731856 (750383) 9 0.294 h3xg4 Nf6xg4 Bg2-h3 Ng4xe3 Nf1xe3 Nd7-f6 Kg1-
>>g2 Bc5xe3 Qc1xe3 Qb6xe3 Re1xe3
>>++ f1-d2
>>00:33 0 0 3643383 (1015766) 9 0.506 Nf1-d2 Qb6-a7 Bb2-c3 a5-a4 b3xa4 Kg8-f8 h3-h
>>4 Bc5-d4 Qc1-b2 Qa7xa4 Bc3xd4 e5xd4 Qb2-b4 Qa4xb4 a3xb4
>>01:07 0 0 7402451 (2116658) 10 0.291 Nf1-d2 Qb6-a7 b3-b4 Bc5xe3 Re1xe3 g4xh3 Bg2
>>xh3 Kg8-f8 b4xa5 Nf6-g4
>>++ b2-c3
>>02:16 0 0 15253229 (3679456) 10 0.341 Bb2-c3 g4xh3 Bg2xh3 Bh5-f3 Nf1-d2 Nf6xe4 B
>>c3xa5 Qb6xa5 Nd2xf3 Kg8-f8 a3-a4
>>++ f1-h2
>>02:40 0 0 17870834 (4220380) 10 0.354 Nf1-h2 g4xh3 Bg2xh3 Bh5-g6 Bh3xd7 Nf6xd7 N
>>h2-g4 h6-h5 Ng4-h6 Kg8-f8 Nh6-f5 Nd7-f6
>>++ a3-a4
>>03:50 0 0 25753917 (6499422) 11 0.354 Nf1-h2 g4xh3 Bg2xh3 Bh5-g6 Bh3xd7 Nf6xd7 N
>>h2-g4 h6-h5 Ng4-h6 Kg8-f8 Nh6-f5 Nd7-f6
>>++ b2-c3
>>++ f1-d2
>>06:18 0 0 42810178 (7893075) 11 0.437 Nf1-d2 Qb6-a7 b3-b4 Bc5xe3 Re1xe3 g4xh3 Bg
>>2xh3 Nf6-g4 Bh3xg4 Bh5xg4 Nd2-c4 a5-a4
>>11:29 0 0 76993736 (11384648) 12 0.437 Nf1-d2 Qb6-a7 b3-b4 Bc5xe3 Re1xe3 g4xh3 B
>>g2xh3 a5-a4 Nd2-c4 Kg8-f8 Bh3xd7 Nf6-d5
>>
>>[D]3rr1k1/1p1n1p2/1qp2nbp/p1b1p1p1/4P3/PP2N1PP/1BP2PB1/R1Q1RNK1 w - -
>>position after Bg6
>>
>>Obviously the scores here are the same like the first output produced where
>>diep planned to play Bg6
>
>
>Not exactly.  You were at -.078.  That has changed although your score is
>far from "stable" here...  It is going up and down significantly, every
>iteration...

Diep was at -.078 before g4
after g4 Diep say 0.437 for white because it believes that g4 was a wrong move

Uri



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