Author: Paul
Date: 10:21:26 10/31/01
Go up one level in this thread
On October 31, 2001 at 11:52:24, Terry McCracken wrote: >On October 31, 2001 at 09:29:24, Paul wrote: > >>On October 31, 2001 at 03:28:12, Terry McCracken wrote: >> >>>On October 30, 2001 at 19:49:30, John Merlino wrote: >>> >>>>On October 30, 2001 at 18:24:41, Terry McCracken wrote: >>>> >>>>>[D]r5k1/ppp2r1p/3p3b/3Pn3/1n2PPp1/1P2K1P1/PBB1N2q/R2Q3R B >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>How do your programmes evaluate this position? >>>>>Do they find forced mate? >>>>> >>>>>Terry >>>> >>>>CM8000 does not find the mate in under 10 minutes on my PIII-600. It sees: >>>> >>>>1...Rxf4 2.Rxh2 Rf3+ 3.Kd4 c5+ 4.dxc6ep b5 5.Bd3 Nexc6+ 6.Kc3 Bg7+ 7.Kd2 Rxd3+ >>>>8.Ke1 >>>> >>>>with an eval of -1.79. Is this the right line, and CM just hasn't seen far >>>>enough yet? Is there really a forced mate? >>>> >>>Yes it is! Fritz with help finds a mate in 14, it was shorter in the >>>actual game. >>> >>>I did this quickly so a shorter mate may exist? >>> >>> >>>1...Rf4! 2.Rxh2..Rf3+ 3.Kd4..Bg7!!4.Rxh7..Rxh7 5.Ng1..c5+ 6.dxc ep. ..Nbc6+ >>>7.Kd5..Nb4+ 8.Kd4..Ned3+ 9.e5..Bxe5+ 10.Kc4..Rc8+ 11.Kb5..Rc5+ 12.Ka4..Nxb2+ >>>13.Kxb4..Bc3# >>>>jm >>>But mate it is! >>> >>> Terry >> >>Hi Terry, >> >>First the good news ... I like this wonderfully complex position, and already >>looked at it with my program a couple of times in the past. In the game, >> >>1. d4 Nf6 2. c4 d6 3. Nc3 e5 4. e4 exd4 5. Qxd4 Nc6 6. Qd2 g6 7. b3 Bg7 8. Bb2 >>O-O 9. Bd3 Ng4 10. Nge2 Qh4 11. Ng3 Nge5 12. O-O f5 13. f3 Bh6 14. Qd1 f4 15. >>Nge2 g5 16. Nd5 g4 17. g3 fxg3 18. hxg3 Qh3 19. f4 Be6 20. Bc2 Rf7 21. Kf2 Qh2 >>22. Ke3 Bxd5 23. cxd5 Nb4 24. Rh1 Rxf4 25. Rxh2 Rf3 26. Kd4 Bg7 27. a4 c5 28. >>dxc6 bxc6 29. Bd3 Nexd3 30. Kc4 d5 31. exd5 cxd5 32. Kb5 Rb8 33. Ka5 Nc6 >> >>white didn't choose the "best" defense: 27. a4? leads to a mate in 8. >> >>The bad news is, I never found a mate, and secondly, I think your line above is >>not totally correct ... unless I missed something (again ;), you gave: >> >>1...Rf4! 2.Rxh2..Rf3+ 3.Kd4..Bg7!!4.Rxh7..Rxh7 5.Ng1..c5+ 6.dxc ep. ..Nbc6+ >>7.Kd5..Nb4+ 8.Kd4..Ned3+ 9.e5..Bxe5+ 10.Kc4..Rc8+ 11.Kb5..Rc5+ 12.Ka4..Nxb2+ >>13.Kxb4..Bc3# >> >>You probably mean 4... Kxh7, but even then 12... Nxb2+ is not possible because >>of a pin. Do you agree with that? >> >>Also, for ex, 8. Kd4 is not the best move (it leads to a mate in 11 ... Ned3+ e5 >>Bxe5+ Kc4 d5+ Kb5 a6+ Ka5 b6+ Kxb6 Rb8+ Ka5 Nc6+ Kxa6 Nb4+ Ka5 Bc7+ Ka4 Ra8+ Kb5 >>Ra5#), Kxd6 is tougher. Further 10... Rc8+ is not the best, d5+ is better. >> >>In short ... it really is a difficult position, it's not a mate in 13, and mine >>still doesn't solve it. >> >>Groetjes, >>Paul > >No I meant Rxh7 and yes the Black N can capture the White B on b2 giving +. Ok, a picture says a thousand words :) ... this is the position after 1... Rxf4 2. Rxh2 Rf3+ 3. Kd4 Bg7 4. Rxh7 ... there's no Rxh7 possible here, only Kxh7: [D]r5k1/ppp3bR/3p4/3Pn3/1n1KP1p1/1P3rP1/PBB1N3/R2Q4 b - - And this is the position after 1... Rxf4 2. Rxh2 Rf3+ 3. Kd4 Bg7 4. Rxh7 Kxh7 5. Ng1 c5+ 6. dxc6 Nbxc6+ 7. Kd5 Nb4+ 8. Kd4 Ned3+ 9. e5 Bxe5+ 10. Kc4 Rc8+ 11. Kb5 Rc5+ 12. Ka4 ... Nxb2+ not possible because it's pinned: [D]8/pp5k/3p4/2r1b3/Kn4p1/1P1n1rP1/PBB5/R2Q2N1 b - - Hope this makes my misunderstanding your line clearer. :) Paul >I will analize this position further but it's a forced mate as far as I can >tell. >But I'll really look at it hard latter. > >Thanks for the compliment of choosing this position!:) >I choose it for these reasons, it's beautiful, wild, complicated and it would >play hell with the programmes;-) > >Regards, > Terry
This page took 0 seconds to execute
Last modified: Thu, 15 Apr 21 08:11:13 -0700
Current Computer Chess Club Forums at Talkchess. This site by Sean Mintz.