Author: Uri Blass
Date: 12:42:59 10/31/01
Go up one level in this thread
On October 31, 2001 at 11:41:52, Terry McCracken wrote: >On October 31, 2001 at 09:04:08, Uri Blass wrote: > >>On October 31, 2001 at 08:25:23, Terry McCracken wrote: >> >>>On October 31, 2001 at 07:08:43, Uri Blass wrote: >>> >>>>On October 31, 2001 at 03:28:12, Terry McCracken wrote: >>>> >>>>>On October 30, 2001 at 19:49:30, John Merlino wrote: >>>>> >>>>>>On October 30, 2001 at 18:24:41, Terry McCracken wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>>[D]r5k1/ppp2r1p/3p3b/3Pn3/1n2PPp1/1P2K1P1/PBB1N2q/R2Q3R B >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>How do your programmes evaluate this position? >>>>>>>Do they find forced mate? >>>>>>> >>>>>>>Terry >>>>>> >>>>>>CM8000 does not find the mate in under 10 minutes on my PIII-600. It sees: >>>>>> >>>>>>1...Rxf4 2.Rxh2 Rf3+ 3.Kd4 c5+ 4.dxc6ep b5 5.Bd3 Nexc6+ 6.Kc3 Bg7+ 7.Kd2 Rxd3+ >>>>>>8.Ke1 >>>>>> >>>>>>with an eval of -1.79. Is this the right line, and CM just hasn't seen far >>>>>>enough yet? Is there really a forced mate? >>>>>> >>>>>Yes it is! Fritz with help finds a mate in 14, it was shorter in the >>>>>actual game. >>>>> >>>>>I did this quickly so a shorter mate may exist? >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>1...Rf4! 2.Rxh2..Rf3+ 3.Kd4..Bg7!!4.Rxh7 >>>> >>>>I do not understand Rxh7 >>>>why not Ng1? >>> >>>Rxh7 is a computer move to delay mate. Ng1 and the mate come a couple >>>moves sooner. >> >>No >>Ng1 is the computer move and after Rxh7 programs can see a clear advantage for >>black. >> >Not according to Fritz 6 or me! Hey I looked through this mate as well. >I don't rely on computers to work everything out. Sometimes I make mistakes, >and so do the programmes! I know that computers may make mistakes but if you want to convince people that it is mate you need to give the mate for lines that programs do not see the mate. I am not talking about the root position. programs do not see the mate after 4.Ng1 so you need to give line after 4.Ng1 in order to convince that there is a faster forced mate after 4.Ng1. My programs also did not see mate after Rxh7 but at least Deep Fritz can see a clear advantage after Rxh7(something that it does not see after Ng1) If you claim a forced mate then you need to analyze every non trivial alternative of the defender in order to convince us about it. 4.Ng1 is not a trivial alternative because program cannot see mate in some minutes after it and even have problems to see a winning advantage after it. Uri
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