Author: Dann Corbit
Date: 11:25:24 11/02/01
Go up one level in this thread
On November 02, 2001 at 12:25:30, ALI MIRAFZALI wrote:
>These two very interesting examples has caught my attention recently;
>As readers are well aware very few combinations occuring in games between
>master players are beyond the reach of computer analysis.Both these positions
>were tested on a 500 Mhz Computer running chessmaster 8000 and Fritz6 for 24
>hours with no result. Here is the backround and games in which the positions
>have occured. In the game John Donaldson (White) vs Welling,G
>(Hertogenbosch 1999) After 1.Nf3 f5 2.g3 b6 3.Bg2 Bb7 4.0-0 Nf6 5.d4 g6 6.c4 Bg7
>7.Nc3 Ne4 8.Nxe4 Bxe4 9.b3 0-0 10.Bb2 e6 11.Qd2 Qf6 12.Ne1 Bxg2 13.Nxg2 Nc6
>14.Rad1 Nd8 15.Qc2 Nf7 16.c5 c6 17.Nf4 bxc5 18.Qxc5 Rfb8 19.Nd3 Qd8 20.Qc2 a5
>21.Nc5 Qe7 22.Rfe1 Rf8 23.Na4 f4 24.Qc5 Qd8 25.Kg2 Rb8 26.Nc3 Ng5 27.Ba3 Rf5
>28.Qc4 d5 29.Qd3 e5 30.dxe5 Bxe5 31.f3 fxg3 32.hxg3 Black found the amazing
>32....Bxg3!!! This is the move that the above mentioned programs were not
>able to find even after 24 hours .For the record the game ended 33.Kxg3 Nxf3!!!
>34.exf3 Qg5+ 35.Kf2 Qh4+ 36.Ke3 Qf4+ 37.Kf2 Qh2+ 38.Ke3 Re8+ 39.Ne4 Rxe4+
>White Resigned.
>
>The second position comes from the game Michal Krasenkow(White) vs Bodgan
>Grabarczk(Black) 57 Polish Championship,Plock,2000
>After 1.d4 Nf6 2.c4 g6 3.Nc3 Bg7 4.e4 0-0 5.h3 c6 6.e5 Ne8 7.f4 d6 8.Nf3 f6
>9.Be3 fxe5 10.fxe5 Nc7 11.Qe2 Nd7 12.0-0-0 b5 13.h4 bxc4 14.h5 Nd5 15.hxg6 hxg6
>16.Nxd5 cxd5 17.Bh6 Bxh6+ 18.Rxh6 Kg7 .Here White found the incredible
>19.Rxg6+!!! This is the move that the above mentioned programs were not able
>to find even after 24 hours.It does lead needless to say to a win by force.
>For the record the game ended 19....Kxg6 20.Nh4+ Kh6 21.Qe3+ Kh7 22.Bd3+!!
>cxd3 23.Qxd3+ Kh8 24.Rh1 Nf6 25.exf6 Qc7+ 26.Kb1 Rxf6 27.Nf3+ Kg8
>28.Qh7+ Kf8 29.Qh8+ Kf7 30.Ng5+ Kg6 31.Qh5+ Black Resigned.
>
>
> I am guessing that the programs failures in these two positions is due
>to the selective search algorithm rather that the depth of these two
>combinations .Anyway it should be mentioned that after feeding some moves of
>these combinations into the Computer the programs see that the winning side
>is actually winning and that the best moves were actually made.
>Since I do not own all the well known programs I am Wondering if there
>are programs that actually see the winning moves.Maybe Rebel,Junior 7
>Fritz7 Deep Fritz or some other program.Is there any program on EARTH
>that sees 32...Bxg3!!! in Game 1 or 19.Rxg6+!!! in Game 2??
Yace says:
[D]1r1q2k1/7p/2p3p1/p2pbrn1/8/BPNQ1PP1/P3P1K1/3RR3 b - - 0 1
Stored 8 learned positions into hash table
solution
no solutions
usetime = 998.00, mintime = 998.00 maxtime = 998.00 tl 998.00 ml 0
13 0.001 -0.25 1t 1...Bxc3 2.Qxc3 {-10}
87 0.001 0.21 1t 1...Qf6 {0}
123 0.002 0.21 1. 1...Qf6 {0}
368 0.003 0.29 2t 1...Qf6 2.Bb2 {0}
1422 0.007 0.29 2. 1...Qf6 2.Bb2 {0}
2184 0.010 0.38 3t 1...Qf6 2.Rc1 Bd4 {0}
3544 0.014 0.38 3. 1...Qf6 2.Rc1 Bd4 {0}
6184 0.023 0.19 4t 1...Qf6 2.Rc1 d4 3.Qc4+ Kh8 {0}
15236 0.047 0.19 4. 1...Qf6 2.Rc1 d4 3.Qc4+ Kh8 {0}
23760 0.070 0.24 5t 1...Qf6 2.Rc1 Bd4 3.Be7 Qe5 {0}
57160 0.140 0.24 5. 1...Qf6 2.Rc1 Bd4 3.Be7 Qe5 {0}
133184 0.353 0.13 6t 1...Qf6 2.Na4 Bc7 3.Bb2 Qd6 4.f4 {0}
291203 0.701 0.14 6t+ 1...Qc7 2.f4 Bxc3 3.fxg5 Bxe1 4.Rxe1 {150}
328864 0.807 0.30 6t 1...Qc7 2.g4 Rf4 3.Rh1 Re8 4.Rd2 {0}
585510 1.449 0.30 6. 1...Qc7 2.g4 Rf4 3.Rh1 Re8 4.Rd2 {0}
735747 1.806 0.09 7t 1...Qc7 2.f4 Bxc3 3.Qxc3 Ne4 4.Qd3 c5 5.Bb2
{-10}
850063 2.086 0.10 7t+ 1...Qf6 2.Na4 Bc7 3.Be7 Qxe7 4.f4 {350}
1182205 2.947 0.19 7t 1...Qf6 2.Rc1 d4 3.Qc4+ Qf7 4.Nd1 Qxc4 5.Rxc4
{0}
1853790 4.429 0.20 7t+ 1...Ne6 2.Rg1 Qg5 3.Qxf5 gxf5 4.f4 Nxf4+ 5.Kh1
{581}
2498433 6.056 0.24 7t 1...Ne6 2.Bc1 Nc5 3.Qc2 Qc7 4.Ba3 Ne6 {0}
2941780 7.163 0.24 7. 1...Ne6 2.Bc1 Nc5 3.Qc2 Qc7 4.Ba3 Ne6 {0}
3930687 9.726 0.18 8t 1...Ne6 2.Bc1 Qf6 3.Na4 Rf8 4.Bh6 Rf7 5.Rh1 {0}
4647556 11.315 0.19 8t+ 1...Qc7 2.f4 Bxc3 3.Qxc3 Ne4 4.Bc5 Nxc3 5.Kg1
{991}
4861027 11.821 0.32 8t 1...Qc7 2.f4 Bxc3 3.Qxc3 Ne4 4.Qc2 c5 5.Bb2 Qf7
{-10}
6558238 15.468 0.32 8. 1...Qc7 2.f4 Bxc3 3.Qxc3 Ne4 4.Qc2 c5 5.Bb2 Qf7
{-10}
7433510 17.482 0.15 9t 1...Qc7 2.f4 Bxc3 3.Qxc3 Ne4 4.Qd3 c5 5.Bb2 c4
6.Qf3 {-10}
10159892 24.059 0.16 9t+ 1...Qf6 2.Na4 Ne6 3.Bc1 Rf8 4.e4H Rxf3H 5.Qxf3H
Qxf3+H 6.Kg1H {HT} {581}
11627840 27.813 0.27 9t 1...Qf6 2.Na4 Ne6 3.Bc1 Rf8 4.Bd2 Qd8 5.Bh6
R8f7H {0}
19200075 44.299 0.27 9. 1...Qf6 2.Na4 Ne6 3.Bc1 Rf8 4.Bd2 Qd8 5.Bh6
R8f7 {0}
32496887 1:16.8 0.53 10t 1...Qf6 2.Na4 Ne6 3.Kf2 Qg5 4.Rg1 Re8 5.Rg2 Nd4
6.Kg1 {0}
52664886 2:01.3 0.53 10. 1...Qf6 2.Na4 Ne6 3.Kf2 Qg5 4.Rg1 Re8 5.Rg2 Nd4
6.Kg1 {0}
94435461 3:44.9 0.82 11t 1...Qf6 2.Na4 Ne6 3.Qd2 Bxg3 4.Kxg3 Nf4 5.Bc5
Qg5+ 6.Kf2 Qh4+ 7.Kf1 d4 8.Qxd4 Qh3+ 9.Kf2 Qg2+
10.Ke3H Re8+H 11.Kd2H {HT} {-350}
172229037 6:35.5 0.82 11. 1...Qf6 2.Na4 Ne6 3.Qd2 Bxg3 4.Kxg3 Nf4 5.Bc5
Qg5+ 6.Kf2 Qh4+ 7.Kf1 d4 8.Qxd4 Qh3+ 9.Kf2 Qg2+
10.Ke3 Re8+ 11.Kd2 {HT} {-350}
379819323 14:41.9 0.94 12t 1...Qf6 2.g4 Ne6 3.Bc1 Rf4 4.Nxd5 cxd5 5.Qxd5
Rd4 6.Qxa5 Rf8 7.Bh6 Nf4+ 8.Kf2 {100}
431331169 16:38.0 0.94 12u. 1...Qf6 2.g4 Ne6 3.Bc1 Rf4 4.Nxd5 cxd5 5.Qxd5
Rd4 6.Qxa5 Rf8 7.Bh6 Nf4+ 8.Kf2 {100}
431331169 Nodes, 36.55% Leavenodes, 432199 Nodes/sec
297945144 eval, 24.98% score, 1883843604 genmoves, 11.56% captures le 322/366
ext: pawn 45335, rcp 811195, chk 15954329, repchk 4398871, null 92695, prune
16843801
htable: 339767500 store, 0 rejected, 418083192 probe, 25.5% f/p, 31.3% f/s
entries 24999999 age 0 renew 0
egtb probes 0, found 0 max_depth 46
[D]r1bq1r2/p2np1k1/3p2pR/3pP3/2pP4/5N2/PP2Q1P1/2KR1B2 w - - 0 1
Stored 8 learned positions into hash table
solution
no solutions
usetime = 998.00, mintime = 998.00 maxtime = 998.00 tl 998.00 ml 0
13 0.001 -3.98 1t 1.Rxg6+ Kxg6 {-500}
26 0.001 -3.01 1t 1.exd6 Kxh6 2.dxe7 {-420}
71 0.002 -0.19 1t 1.Qe3 dxe5 2.dxe5 {-80}
104 0.002 -0.17 1t 1.Qd2 dxe5 2.dxe5 {-80}
158 0.003 0.03 1t 1.Rh1 dxe5 2.Nxe5 {-80}
211 0.003 0.03 1. 1.Rh1 dxe5 2.Nxe5 {-80}
280 0.004 -0.08 2t 1.Rh1 Rb8 {-80}
834 0.006 -0.08 2. 1.Rh1 Rb8 {-80}
1689 0.010 -0.20 3t 1.Rh1 Rh8 2.Rxh8 {420}
2163 0.012 -0.19 3t+ 1.Qd2 Rf6
2551 0.014 -0.17 3t 1.Qd2 dxe5 2.dxe5 {-80}
8779 0.028 -0.15 3t+ 1.Rh4 Kg8
9532 0.031 -0.04 3t 1.Rh4 Rh8 2.Rf4 {-80}
10148 0.033 -0.04 3. 1.Rh4 Rh8 2.Rf4 {-80}
13320 0.044 -0.30 4t 1.Rh4 dxe5 2.dxe5 Qa5 3.Kb1 {-80}
14006 0.048 -0.29 4t+ 1.Qd2 dxe5 2.dxe5 Rb8 3.Kb1 {-80}
16428 0.056 -0.21 4t 1.Qd2 dxe5 2.Qg5 Qb6 {-160}
27841 0.086 -0.20 4t+ 1.exd6 exd6 2.Rh3 Rb8 3.Re1 {-80}
28022 0.087 -0.20 4t 1.exd6 exd6 2.Rh3 Rb8H 3.Re1H {-80}
49177 0.130 -0.20 4. 1.exd6 exd6 2.Rh3 Rb8 3.Re1 {-80}
79128 0.202 -0.31 5t 1.exd6 exd6 2.Qe3 Rh8 3.Rh3 Rb8 {-80}
81758 0.211 -0.30 5t+ 1.Qd2 Rxf3 2.gxf3 g5 3.Qxg5+ Kf7 {160}
93529 0.243 -0.21 5t 1.Qd2 dxe5 2.Qg5 Qb6 3.dxe5 {-80}
141241 0.336 -0.21 5. 1.Qd2 dxe5 2.Qg5 Qb6 3.dxe5 {-80}
203588 0.488 -0.24 6t 1.Qd2 dxe5 2.dxe5 Rb8 3.e6 Nc5 4.Ne5 {-80}
241345 0.581 -0.23 6t+ 1.exd6 exd6 2.Qe3 Rh8 3.Rxh8 Qxh8 4.Kb1 {-80}
409303 0.934 -0.21 6t 1.exd6 Rxf3 2.dxe7 Qe8 3.Qxf3 Kxh6 4.Qxd5H Rb8H
{-180}
762964 1.722 -0.21 6. 1.exd6 Rxf3 2.dxe7 Qe8 3.Qxf3 Kxh6 4.Qxd5 Rb8
{-180}
1278028 2.851 -0.26 7t 1.exd6 exd6 2.Qd2 Rb8 3.Be2 Qb6 4.Rdh1 Kf6 {-80}
1384843 3.166 -0.25 7t+ 1.Qd2 dxe5 2.dxe5 Rb8 3.e6 Nc5 4.Ne5 Rf3 {-80}
1679273 3.855 -0.23 7t 1.Qd2 dxe5 2.dxe5 e6 3.Be2 Rb8 4.Rf1 Rf5 {-80}
2667113 6.090 -0.23 7. 1.Qd2 dxe5 2.dxe5 e6 3.Be2 Rb8 4.Rf1 Rf5 {-80}
4248050 9.711 -0.07 8t 1.Qd2 dxe5 2.dxe5 e6 3.Be2 Rh8 4.Rdh1 Rxh6
5.Qxh6+ Kf7 {-80}
7712656 17.047 -0.07 8. 1.Qd2 dxe5 2.dxe5 e6 3.Be2 Rh8 4.Rdh1 Rxh6
5.Qxh6+ Kf7 {-80}
14384692 31.851 -0.06 9t 1.Qd2 Rh8 2.Rxh8 Qxh8 3.exd6 exd6 4.Re1 Qd8H
5.Kd1H {HT}
19467647 44.250 -0.05 9t+ 1.Qe3 dxe5 2.Rxg6+ Kxg6 3.Qg5+ Kf7 4.Qf5+ Nf6
5.Nxe5+ Kg7 6.Qg5+ Kh7 7.Bd3+ Bf5 8.Rh1+ Nh5
9.Bxf5+ Rxf5 10.Qxf5+ Kg7 {0}
21770617 49.616 0.00 9t 1.Qe3 dxe5 2.Rxg6+ Kxg6 3.Qg5+ Kf7 4.Qf5+ Nf6
5.Nxe5+ Kg7 6.Qg5+ Kh8 7.Ng6+ Kg8 8.Ne5+H Kh8H
9.Ng6+H Kg8H 10.Ne5+H Kh8HR {-500}
29672030 1:05.4 0.00 9. 1.Qe3 dxe5 2.Rxg6+ Kxg6 3.Qg5+ Kf7 4.Qf5+ Nf6
5.Nxe5+ Kg7 6.Qg5+ Kh8 7.Ng6+ Kg8 8.Ne5+ Kh8
9.Ng6+ Kg8 10.Ne5+ Kh8 {-500}
45747064 1:43.7 0.04 10t 1.Qe3 dxe5 2.Rxg6+ Kxg6 3.Qg5+ Kf7 4.Qf5+ Kg7
5.Qg4+ Kf6 6.dxe5+ Nxe5 7.Qf4+ Kg7 8.Qxe5+ Rf6
9.Rxd5 Qb6H 10.Bxc4H {HT} {-80}
82322554 3:00.8 0.04 10. 1.Qe3 dxe5 2.Rxg6+ Kxg6 3.Qg5+ Kf7 4.Qf5+ Kg7
5.Qg4+ Kf6 6.dxe5+ Nxe5 7.Qf4+ Kg7 8.Qxe5+ Rf6
9.Rxd5 Qb6 10.Bxc4 {HT} {-80}
119552080 4:38.8 0.44 11++ 1.Qe3 dxe5 2.Rxg6+ Kxg6 3.Qg5+ Kf7 4.Qf5+ Kg7
5.Qg4+ Kf6 6.Bxc4 Qc7 7.Nxe5 Nxe5 8.Rf1+ Nf3
9.Rxf3+ Bf5 10.Rxf5+ Ke6 11.Rxf8+ Kd6 {430}
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