Computer Chess Club Archives


Search

Terms

Messages

Subject: Ng5!? Is there a win here.

Author: Mark Young

Date: 00:31:10 05/31/98

Go up one level in this thread


On May 31, 1998 at 01:24:12, Hristo wrote:

>On May 29, 1998 at 12:56:18, blass uri wrote:
>
>>On May 29, 1998 at 05:01:53, Dennis Breuker wrote:
>>
>>>In http://www.chesscenter.com/twic/michael53.html Michael Greengard
>>>gives some interesting analysis for the third game in the
>>>Kramnik-Shirov match.
>>>
>>>This is the game in PGN:
>>>
>>>[Event "WCC Cand final"]
>>>[Site "Cazorla ESP"]
>>>[Date "1998.05.27"]
>>>[Round "03"]
>>>[White "Kramnik,V"]
>>>[Black "Shirov,A"]
>>>[Result "1/2-1/2"]
>>>[ECO "D88"]
>>>[WhiteElo "2790"]
>>>[BlackElo "2710"]
>>>
>>>1. d4 Nf6 2. c4 g6 3. Nc3 d5 4. cxd5 Nxd5 5. e4 Nxc3 6. bxc3 Bg7 7. Bc4
>>>O-O 8. Ne2 c5 9. O-O Nc6 10. Be3 Bg4 11. f3 Na5 12. Bxf7+ Rxf7 13. fxg4
>>>Rxf1+ 14. Kxf1 cxd4 15. cxd4 e5 16. d5 Nc4 17. Qd3 Nxe3+ 18. Qxe3 Qh4
>>>19. h3 Bh6 20. Qd3 Rf8+ 21. Kg1 Qf2+ 22. Kh1 Qe3 23. Qxe3 Bxe3 24. Rd1
>>>Rf2 25. Ng1 Kf7 26. Rd3 Bb6 27. Rf3+ Ke7 28. Rxf2 Bxf2 29. Nf3 Kd6 30.
>>>g3 Bxg3 31. Kg2 Bf4 32. Kf2 Kc5 33. Ke2 b5 34. Kd3 1/2-1/2
>>>
>>>Here I quote the relevant part of what Michael Greengard wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>------------- <begin quote>
>>>30.g3 looks like a blunder, tossing a pawn and allowing the bishop to
>>>protect the weak e-pawn, but upon deeper inspection White has nothing
>>>else. 30.Ng5 is the obvious move, winning a pawn and, coincidentally,
>>>almost losing the game! You computer analysis addicts out there should
>>>toss your Pentium 400 MHz and ChesSpank 6000 out the window on this one
>>>as I'm sure they just LOVE 30.Ng5! I'm still looking at side lines, but
>>>it's very hard for White to save the game as the queenside pawns are
>>>very fast if the knight wanders that far away. (Good thing to remember
>>>in your own games. Pawns are slow in the middlegame, but are devilishly
>>>fast in endgames vs. knights!)
>>>
>>>While Black is in trouble if he tries to defend (Black loses after
>>>30.Ng5? 30...h6 or 30...b5 and just barely draws (?) after 30...Ke7), he
>>>can go on the offensive with 30...Kc5! and it takes some serious
>>>acrobatics for White to even draw this position.
>>>
>>>[ANALYSIS LINE: 30.Ng5?]
>>>
>>>30...Kc5! 31.Nxh7 b5 32.g3 a5
>>>
>>>(32...Bxg3? Slowing down the queenside pawns by a crucial tempo and
>>>allowing the white king to gain several important tempi hitting the
>>>bishop. 33.Nf8 a5 34.Kg2 Be1 35.Nxg6 Kd6 36.Kf1! Bc3 37.h4 b4 38.Ke2
>>>winning)
>>>
>>>33.Kg2 Bd4
>>
>>fritz5 prefered 33...a4 with evaluation of equality after 7 minutes
>>
>> 34.Ng5
>>>
>>>(This crazy line which appears to save White is probably better! Lots of
>>>analysis needed here: 34.h4 b4 35.h5 gxh5 36.gxh5 a4 37.Nf6 Be3 38.d6
>>>Bg5 39.Ng4
>>
>>now 39...Kxd6 wins for black
>>
>>
>>Uri
>
>
>Hold on .. :))) am I missing something here ...seems like white are
>winning after: (BTW I'm not going to list all possible combinations ...
>too much :))
>30. Ng5 Kc5(?!) 31. Nxh7 b5 32. g3 a5 33. Kg2 Bd4 34. h4 b4 35. h5 gxh5
>36. g5(!) a4 37.g6 b3 38. axb axb 39. g7 b2 40. g8Q b1Q 41. Qf8+ Kc4 42.
>Qf3 and it seems like only white can win here ...
>if 36. ... Kd6 37. g6 Ke7 38. d6+ Ke6 39. g7 Kf7 40. Nf6 Kxg7 41. Nd5 +-
>
>Now there are a lot of different combinations here ... :)
>if 36. ... Be3 37. g6 Bh6 38. Ng5 a4 39. Nf3 b3 40. axb a3 41. Ne1 a2
>42. Nc2 Kd6 43. b4 Ke7 44. Kf3 Kf6 45. Ke2! Bf8 46. b5 Bc5 47. Kd3 kxg6
>48. Kc4 Bd4 49. d6 Kf6 50. Kd5 a1Q 51. Nxa1 Bxa1 52. Kc6 +-
>This is just the main line, or so it seems. White have advantage! no?!
>If computers play this move *they*(the computers) might lose not because
>of
>30. Ng5(!?) but because the position is fairly complicated, and the
>smallest
>mistake would be deadly. Perhaps 30.g3 is a blunder instead of a win
>white
>have to fight for a draw.
>Computers playing chess have many problems, but I din't think this move
>is one of them !!! Better try game #2 of the last match between KG and
>DB !!!
>
>Bets Regards.
>Hristo

Could a strong player take a look at the lines here. I found the same
line of play. And it looks like it may win. Is 30 Ng5 losing? Move 36 g5
-- seems to win the game.



This page took 0 seconds to execute

Last modified: Thu, 15 Apr 21 08:11:13 -0700

Current Computer Chess Club Forums at Talkchess. This site by Sean Mintz.