Author: Vincent Diepeveen
Date: 13:08:17 11/05/01
Go up one level in this thread
On November 05, 2001 at 15:16:50, Christophe Theron wrote: >On November 05, 2001 at 15:09:19, A.L.Mourik wrote: > >>Interesting things heard at NK 2001 Leiden 11-5-2001 >> >>After IM. Rob Hartog had given his commentary /analysis on the game Fritz – >>Chess Tiger result 0-1, (which result Hartog blaimed on the chosen opening >>line) he asked Frans Morsch whether the program had improved. >>Frans Morsch a little bit agitated, said, that although possibly the loss was >>due to the opening line, it still did hurt him. “And instead of other opinions”, >>he said: “Fritz 7 definitely is clearly better than his predecessor.” >>He said it to be surely a 40 Elo points better than Fritz 6. >> >>Secondly according to Rob Hartog, Frans Morsch would have claimed Fritz 7 to >>have a winningpercentage of 60% against Rebel Century and Chess Tiger in >>testgames. > > > >That would suggest a 70 elo points difference over Chess Tiger 14, so that >remains to be seen. > >But anyway Tiger 15 is coming soon... > > > > Christophe chessbase does not have Jeroen's tournament book which he uses in tournaments. So i can imagine a 60% score against the cdrom book of tiger versus a chanceless zero somehow against the tournament book in tournaments against tiger. Note that fritz seems to use fritz7 book set at random in tournaments after world champs now till the next book arrives for the wmcc2002. How does a book put at random perform against a tournament book for tiger which both rebel and tiger used? Well the answer has been given i think very clearly in dutch open again. So that 60% i take with a big bit of salt. Also i take the 70 elopoints lemma or whatever lemma with a big bit of salt, unless that's a Mhz number. Obviously if a program would improve with 70 points at each new version, we already would have 3000+ rated programs by now. Rebel probably started someday with version 1. So did fritz. Now we have fritz7. before fritz7 we had deepfritz, before that fritz6b before that fritz6a before that fritz6 before that fritz 5.32 before that 5.16 And the list goes on. We talk about how many fritz versions. Like 20 ? 20 x 70 rating points more = 1400 rating points more. Fritz1 definitely wasn't rated 1000 points :) Even if fritz1 was only 2050 rated. that's a rating of 3450 now, which definitely isn't true. I analysed DIEP - Isichess just a moment ago with fritz7: [Event "21st Dutch CC"] [Site "Leiden NED"] [Date "2001.11.04"] [Round "10"] [White "DIEP"] [Black "IsiChess X"] [Result "1/2-1/2"] 1.d4 d5 2.c4 c6 3.Nf3 Nf6 4.Nc3 e6 5.e3 Nbd7 6.Bd3 Be7 7.O-O dxc4 8.Bxc4 Nb6 9.Bd3 O-O 10.e4 [diagram] Now here isichess was out of book and plays Bd7. DIEP planned initially the horrible Ne8 move here. GM comment here is that black is dead lost, which i take with a bit of salt, because c5 one day and position is dead equal from computerviewpoint. Strategic level from GMs is simply hundreds of points above the level of any program still. Nevertheless what fritz7 plays here, which btw is pretty similar to what deepfritz plays is the horrible Qd7 move. That for SURE can't be the meaning of this position. Ne8 is horrible Bd7 is horrible, but Qd7 is a DISASTER. How can an engine plan Qd7 here anyway, i don't understand! 70 points better? I would be amazed if it was 1 point. The improvement seems to be that fritz7 is no longer a preprocessor where with deepfritz i still had that bad feeling it still was one, despite frans swearing by Friedel that it wasn't! Now that perhaps doesn't improve the rating of fritz for now, but it sure proves Frans statements that fritz no longer is a preprocessor. The real interesting difference is fritz7 versus fritz7nommx. Like tiger had 2 brothers for the same price, same principle seems to get applied by Frans now too. Fritz7 and fritz7nommx. 10...Bd7 11.Qc2 h6 12.a4 a5 13.Bf4 Rc8 14.Be2 c5 15.dxc5 Bxc5 16.Ne5 Qe7 17.Qd3 Rfd8 18.Qg3 Kh8 19.Nxd7 Nbxd7 20.e5 Nd5 21.Nxd5 exd5 22.Rad1 f6 23.Rxd5 Nxe5 24.Rxd8+ Rxd8 25.Bb5 b6 26.Qh3 Qb7 27.Re1 Qd5 28.Bxh6 gxh6 29.Qxh6+ Kg8 30.Qxf6 Nf7 31.g3 Bd4 32.Qg6+ Kf8 33.Re4 Rc8 34.h4 Bxb2 35.Kh2 Be5 36.f4 Bf6 37.Re2 Bd4 38.Qg4 Qc5 39.Qe6 Rc7 40.Qg6 Nd6 41.Qh6+ Bg7 42.Qe6 Qd4 43.Qg6 Re7 44.Rxe7 Kxe7 45.Bc6 Bf6 46.Qh7+ Nf7 47.Kg2 Qc4 48.Bb5 Qa2+ 49.Kh3 Qe6+ 50.Kh2 Kf8 51.Qg6 Nd6 52.Bd3 Ke7 53.h5 Qa2+ 54.Bc2 Qd5 55.h6 Qd2+ 56.Kh3 Qe1 57.h7 Qf1+ 58.Kg4 Qe2+ 59.Kh3 Qe6+ 60.Kg2 Qd5+ 61.Kh2 Bh8 62.Qd3 Qe6 63.Bb1 Nb7 64.Bc2 Nc5 65.Qd1 Qe3 66.Bf5 Qf2+ 67.Kh3 Qa2 68.Qe1+ Kf7 69.Qd1 Qa1 70.Qd5+ Kf6 71.Kg2 Ke7 72.Qc6 Qxa4 73.Qxb6 Qa2+ 74.Kh3 Qd5 75.Qc7+ Kf6 76.g4 Qf3+ 77.Kh4 Qf2+ 78.Kh3 Qf3+ 79.Kh4 Qf2+ 1/2-1/2 Best regards, Vincent
This page took 0 seconds to execute
Last modified: Thu, 15 Apr 21 08:11:13 -0700
Current Computer Chess Club Forums at Talkchess. This site by Sean Mintz.