Author: Robert Hyatt
Date: 09:00:03 11/06/01
Go up one level in this thread
On November 06, 2001 at 10:17:47, Vincent Diepeveen wrote: >On November 05, 2001 at 21:13:06, Robert Hyatt wrote: > >>On November 05, 2001 at 20:28:26, Vincent Diepeveen wrote: >> >>>On November 05, 2001 at 14:51:13, Robert Hyatt wrote: >>> >>>>On November 05, 2001 at 01:30:40, Christophe Theron wrote: >>>> >>>>>On November 04, 2001 at 00:06:14, Thomas Mayer wrote: >>>>> >>>>>>Hi Bas, >>>>>> >>>>>>> Against Diep Winboard's clock was slightly out of sync with the real clock. >>>>>>> Don't ever let that happen! Amazing how fast the difference grows and you >>>>>>> CAN'T adjust the clock in Winboard. A couple of minutes difference is >>>>>>> *deadly*. And, though it is allowed to adjust the engine clock, apparently it >>>>>>> is not allowed to restart Winboard+engine with a corrected time. Vincent was >>>>>>> the first to point that out to the tournament directors. "Not allowed! If I >>>>>>> can't restart my engine for table bases, HE can't bla bla bla..." (Tao +0.90 >>>>>>> Diep +0.001 but drawish IMO). Whatever I would have done in this situation, >>>>>>> *not* this pityful "no no, not allowed!". The 30 nullmoves from Diep that >>>>>>> followed to push Tao through the flag I can forgive, but not the "nono". >>>>>> >>>>>>That's why I do it a little bit different for tournaments in Quark. >>>>>>Tournamenttimecontrols in Quark are hard coded, but need anyway the time >>>>>>information of Winboard. >>>>>> >>>>>>That's how it work: >>>>>>I set Winboard always to the full time, e.g. in Leiden to 90 minutes (if there >>>>>>is a cut somewhere, it is hardcoded, that Quark must play the first 40 moves in >>>>>>xx minutes) >>>>>>Now what is Quark doing ? There is a setable variable in its ini file, called >>>>>>operatortime - a good value for this is 12. Internally it had a correction time, >>>>>>this grows each move (move, not half move) about this value. >>>>>>When it gets the winboard-time, it substracts the correction time from the >>>>>>winboard-time and has now a prediction about what is on the clock. >>>>>>Before every move, the engine writes something to the the .debug - file: Time >>>>>>from Winboard, Correction time, Time it thinks must be on the clock. I check the >>>>>>.debug file through game with the tail-utility. (Works fine under NT/2000/XP) >>>>>>Because the opening moves are played without clock you get initially a quite >>>>>>nice bonus which you can add later - there are 2 commands in Quark to correct >>>>>>the internal correction time by a value, so when Quark thinks it has to much >>>>>>time on clock then I must add something to the correction time, else I can >>>>>>substract something. If the game will be very long, you must change the >>>>>>operatortime later in the game... (But thats only interesting, when you have >>>>>>much over 100 moves) - a quite playable value is 6-8 seconds if your >>>>>>concentration is high enough. >>>>>>With that system I was so far NEVER in time troubles, and I have always an >>>>>>overview what Quark thinks what is on the real clock, so it's easy to correct. >>>>>>Oh, only once I had a time problem - Vincent did not tell me, that he has moved >>>>>>already and my clock runs for about 10 minutes without that I know it... But I >>>>>>correct internal time and didn't miss the cut at all - I spent one minute on the >>>>>>idea to miss the cut anyway, because I was very unhappy about the game, but that >>>>>>wouldn't be very sportsmanlike... a "no, no" is also not very sportsmanlike... I >>>>>>would understand this from commercial programs - they fight for every point and >>>>>>every point is money - but from amateurs ? Well... How about pushing the >>>>>>reset-button by accident to have a crash ??? :) >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>I have never seen a commercial programmer behave in the way you describe. Can >>>>>you mention one? >>>>> >>>>>It's not about being commercial anyway, it's about being a gentleman. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Christophe >>>> >>>> >>>>Jan Louman >>> >>>Jan Louwman operated Tiger at the world champs 2001 in maastricht btw, >>>and Rebel partly at the dutch open last 2 weekends. >> >> >>Can't help it. He asked for "the name of someone involved with a commercial >>program that acted like that win at all cost scenario." Jan has used the "move >>now" button so many times in chess games at ACM events, that several of us had a >>long chat with the TD the last time he operated. He was even caught on video >>tape telling Rebel to "move now". I had relayed this to Ed quite some time >>back. This was common knowledge with most of the competitors and we all just >>simply watched him _very_ carefully. > >known is also the timebug in kallisto some years ago, >where a force move is needed. > >Jan operated Kallisto a lot too at different tournaments :) > >I also remember a game i had against a program in Paris 97. And my opponent >didn't want to queen at all. Every move the move of diep wasn't expected. > >When i turned my had for a short moment i heart a few mouseclicks and >DANG my already excited opponent had played within a few seconds :) There are probably many such stories around. For the CB group, we had three of us at most events. I generally did the operating because I was by far the fastest typist we had, plus I knew how to correct errors if the opponent discovered he had made the wrong move and I had entered it already. The other two generally were "observers" which made such behavior more hard to slip by at least in the games against us. But it _did_ happen on occasion. And it was caught on video tape once. :)
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