Author: Vincent Diepeveen
Date: 04:57:37 11/08/01
Go up one level in this thread
On November 07, 2001 at 12:29:30, Robert Hyatt wrote: >On November 07, 2001 at 04:19:00, Gian-Carlo Pascutto wrote: > >>On November 07, 2001 at 04:04:47, Uri Blass wrote: >> >>>On November 07, 2001 at 01:48:40, Gian-Carlo Pascutto wrote: >>> >>>>On November 07, 2001 at 01:27:01, Uri Blass wrote: >>>> >>>>>I want to see a tournament of programs and not a tournament that is also of >>>>>operators. >>>> >>>>You can run those for yourself. >>>> >>>>The whole *point* of the Dutch open and similar competitions is that >>>>it's a competition between programmers IMHO. >>> >>>I know that it is a competition between programmers but >>>the exact competition except operator time >>>can be done on ICC with changing the book or the program >>>between games. >> >>Absolutely not. >> >>There is a big difference between meeting your opponent >>in real life, and being able to discuss (yes, that's possible >>on a server too, but its not the same) what and how the >>programs work and evaluate the position. >> >>A real event is much more exciting than an internet event, >>just because of actually meeting the people behind the machines. >> >>This is also why I think it's very important the author is >>present. >> >>-- >>GCP > >Note that I advocate an automatic interface to eliminate the human during >the game... but that I do _not_ advocate no programmers attending. The >tournament (IMHO) would be held exactly as it has been held, except the >programs gathered together use an auto-interface to send moves and get clock >updates, rather than depending on a human. This leaves _more_ time for the >humans to exchange ideas, discuss _all_ the active games, and enjoy the event >more... Aha now someone with experience using auto232 player is going to open his mouth. There are many OS-es which get linked on the auto232 player. laptops with win98 versus old 'servers' with NT. and they all use auto232. now the auto232 protocol has bugs, but whatever your protocol is, what are you going to do in case that 2 programs stop playing each other because of disturbance? I mean it could be the com port of a laptop. Some laptops have *bad* comports. It could be the network card. Some network cards are a joke as we all know. It could be the windows OS which blocks input for a while or whatever or throws away packets. It could be program A it could be program B. What you do here? Operate by hand again? Most likely the libraries fritz uses are disturbing the most because the interface it's using is written in MFC. With tiger i have hardly problems auto232 playing. Idem Shredder. Both are seemingly non-mfc. But fritz is mfc, so game after game one gets problems. Perhaps not even a bug from fritz itself. Most likely simply MFC. Now one tournament goes ok. Second tournament suddenly a company C says: "we no longer support this protocol we have developed our own similar protocol" So they force you that they can act as server, so they determine who forfeits and who didn't. Suddenly 10% of all games they win by forfeit. Other games are seemingly shorter, like the opponent gets 10 minutes less a game *somehow*. Even worse, the *only* way to see the game is to watch their display, because they dissallow the opponent saving the game (as they changed protocol). Also they delete the learning files on the harddisk of the opponent, or simply kill the process and restart it. Would you accept that? SSDF did. Vincent
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