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Subject: Re: KIller/Moves.

Author: Robert Hyatt

Date: 11:07:57 11/09/01

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On November 09, 2001 at 09:44:14, Tony Werten wrote:

>On November 09, 2001 at 09:40:29, Robert Hyatt wrote:
>
>>On November 09, 2001 at 02:16:49, Tony Werten wrote:
>>
>>>On November 08, 2001 at 18:04:43, Robert Hyatt wrote:
>>>
>>>>On November 08, 2001 at 14:46:15, Tony Werten wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>On November 08, 2001 at 12:01:16, Robert Hyatt wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>On November 08, 2001 at 07:45:59, Vincent Diepeveen wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>On November 07, 2001 at 15:51:59, Robert Hyatt wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>On November 07, 2001 at 12:22:05, William Dozier wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>Good day to all of you, Question: Is there a killer book for black? Is there a
>>>>>>>>>book for black, so it can counter all the white moves. When does the table base
>>>>>>>>>start kicking in; in crafty?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>I doubt that there is any "killer book" for black or white, assuming your
>>>>>>>>opponent does his homework.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>tablebases start getting hit when there are around 16 pieces left on the board,
>>>>>>>>most of the time.  Others might get different results of course.  I have seen
>>>>>>>>hits with 20 pieces left...  but not very often.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>With all extensions turned on i get hits from openings position
>>>>>>>already after a night of search with big hashtable.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Overnight that is possible.  I interpreted it as "during a real game".  :)
>>>>>
>>>>>Depends on where you probe. I probe everywhere and have seen tablebasehits with
>>>>>30 pieces on the board in 3 minute searches. Useless but funny.
>>>>>
>>>>>Tony
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>What happens when you get into 8-10 piece endings?  Does your speed die?  I
>>>>did that early on and actually lost winnable games, because I slowed down so
>>>>bad the search depth was not enough to reach won positions.  IE from 100K it
>>>>would drop to 1-5K...
>>>
>>>If I have a 10 ply search I will probe the first 10 ply on harddisk, for the
>>>rest I use my own tablebaseformat wich stores the 4 and 3 pieces in memory,
>>>making probing not more expensive than an evaluation.
>>>
>>>At the dutch open I set up a testposition with 6 pieces and still got 1Mn/s on a
>>>AMD 1700+
>>>
>>>
>>>Tony
>>\
>>That isn't "probing everywhere".  IE with a 10 ply search, you can extend to
>>way beyond 20 plies.  Probing out there will hurt.  And if you probe in the
>>q-search it will hurt even more.
>>
>>Your limit is the same as I have been using for years...
>
>Sorry, probing the 5 pieces the first 10 ply and probing 4 pieces in the rest of
>the tree is not probing everywhere ?


No.  I interpret the question as "probing endgame tables on disk".  The 3-4
piece files don't hurt a thing.  But probe the 5-6 piece files in the q-search
and things are different.


>
>Don't get it.
>I don't probe 6 pieces, does that mean I probe nowhere ?
>
>Tony

"probe" in this context was refering to disk I/O.  That is what kills
performance, not poking around in memory.



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