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Subject: Re: Fritz 7 v Junior 7 has ended (24 games pgn, long)

Author: Jonas Cohonas

Date: 05:48:45 11/11/01

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On November 11, 2001 at 08:43:27, Vincent Diepeveen wrote:

>On November 10, 2001 at 19:13:31, Jonas Cohonas wrote:
>
>>On November 10, 2001 at 18:09:32, K. Burcham wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>
>>>so what is it with this "grow up" comment.
>>
>>That was a reply to his: "How for **** sake can you present this as fritz-junior
>>games?" comment
>>
>>>here is my follow up to vincent's comment:
>>>
>>>one of the openings you used jonas was: 1.d4  d5  2.Nf3  a6  3.c4  e6
>>
>>I did not use them, the comp did.....
>
>you clicked off tournament book from Kure first, the comp
>by default has it turned on.
>
>>>i checked this queens pawn opening in the tiger book ct.btk.
>>>with the chess tiger 14 book, the move 2.Nf3 will not play.
>>>now after changing books to gambit tiger 2.0, the program can play 2.Nf3.
>>>but the program cannot play 2...a6.
>>>
>>>in my deep fritz, with the deepfritz.ctg book, deep fritz wants to play 2.c4.
>>>
>>>in my shredder5, under book options, book mode, if i select tournament book,
>>>shredder5 will play 2.Nf3. but will not play 2...a6.
>>>with the standard book in shredder5, it will play 2.Nf3 but not 2...a6.
>>>with the wide book in shredder5, it will play 2.Nf3 but will not play 2...a6.
>>>instead shredder5 wants 2...Nf6, or 2...e6, or 2...c6, if 2.Nf3 is played.
>>
>>I did say that i used a book compiled from 2600.pgn......
>
>now a completely lunatic book you make look great by not letting it play
>against a tournament book.
>
>So the illusion you create is that nonsense openings can be played!
>
>>>(vincents quote)
>>>"with all respect Jonas,
>>>but please look at the bloody nonsense lines the engines play.
>>>How can you take that serious? Also Fritz doesn't seem to be
>>>learning at all, nor does Junior. Did you turn off learning?
>>>Opening like 1.d4,d5 2.nf3,a6
>>>How for **** sake can you present this as fritz-junior games?"
>>>
>>>seems his comment is in order based on the books i checked.
>>
>>Again i used a book compiled from 2600.pgn...
>>
>>>and i agree with what vincent was saying. sure you can do what ever you want.
>>>it is your software and your time. but the comp-comp tournaments we run can be
>>>any of the following:  no book, gambit book only, common openings including
>>>gambits, old theory book, modern up to date theory book, etc..
>>>
>>>it seems that we could have a tournament with all the top programs with any
>>>combination of these books, such as a tournament with gambit only books.
>>>
>>>but for me, i want 1.e4 c5 2.Nf3 e6 3.d4
>>>          or       1.d4 d5 2.c4 dxc4 3.Nc3
>>>          or        what is accepted as a safe opening so that we can have the
>>>two programs decide with their programs which will win the game, without being
>>>based on the books. but i know that in comp tournaments some of the guys have
>>>their own secret books or books they think are an advantage over their
>>>opponents. we can take one of the top programs and cripple it with a terrible
>>>book, and i suspect it would lose more games than normal.
>>
>>Junior 7 using the 2600.ctg won the match 14.5 - 9.5.....
>
>Wrong conclusion. Fritz without tournament book lost a match,
>no big deal.
>
>I knew in advance this would get your conclusion, because you can't
>look at the facts objective.
>
>>>it seems you could have learned from vincents comment.
>>
>>Yes if i shared his views...
>
>Devil's advocate:
>
>Your view is 2600 book is ok. First match it gets slaughtered of
>course against default Kure + Fritz.
>
>Second match you unclick learning and even had to turn off
>tournament book, only then it starts to win. That fritz is carefully
>tuned to just play a very narrow openings repertoire you prevent
>then by having it play random book moves.
>
>>Regards
>>Jonas

Fritz 7 used its standard Fritz7.ctg throughout the whole match...

Regards
Jonas



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