Author: Eelco de Groot
Date: 13:26:06 11/11/01
Go up one level in this thread
On November 11, 2001 at 10:53:16, Janosch Zwerensky wrote: > >>For some time, Rebel personality Q5T agreed wholeheartedly with your choice of >>move 1.Qxf3. A brave move! However, just now I see that 1.Rxc8 which is the >>second move on the list, after 9 min 45 sec. on a Celeron 500 MHz fails high... >>More computer analysis needed, I think, for Q5T to make up its mind! > >Interesting. Still, Rebel seems to think that white has a disadvantage, which is >in disagreement with both my chess intuition and the evals returned by Fritz5.32 >and GT2. What analysis does Rebel give if you play out the lines I gave? > >Regards, >Janosch. Hello Janosch, In the Qxf3 line you posted that Gambit Tiger wants to play Q5T sees a very very small plus emerge for White, but that is only after entering a few moves of Tiger's line. So first 1.Qxf3 exf3+ 2.Kxg3 [D]r5k1/2q4p/2b1p1p1/1p1pP1B1/1P1P2PP/2P2pK1/2B5/R3R3 b - - 0 1 Now Tiger wants Black to play 2..Lb7 3.Txa8+ Lxa8 and gives this +1.12, for White if I see that correctly, because it is a Chessbase Tiger? After 2. ..Lb7 3.Txa8+ Lxa8 I get [FEN "r5k1/2q4p/2b1p1p1/1p1pP1B1/1P1P2PP/2P2pK1/2B5/R3R3 b - - 0 1"] Bb7 2.Rxa8+ Bxa8 * Last Move : 2... Bxa8 (White to play) 00:00 07.00 0.29 2.Re3 f2 4.Kxf2 Qc4 5.Bd1 h5 6.gxh5 Qa2+ 7.Re2 00:00 08.00 0.29 2.Re3 f2 4.Kxf2 Qc4 5.Bd1 h5 6.gxh5 Qa2+ 7.Re2 00:01 09.00 0.02 2.Re3 Qc4 4.Rxf3 Qe2 5.Bd3 Qe1+ 6.Kh2 Qxc3 00:05 10.00 -0.08 2.Re3 f2 4.Kxf2 Qc4 5.Bd1 Qa2 6.Be2 h5 7.gxh5 gxh5 00:13 11.00 0.00 2.Re3 Qc4 4.Rxf3 Qe2 5.Bh6 Qe1+ 6.Kg2 Qe2+ 7.Kg3 Qe1+ 8.Kg2 Qe2+ 01:18 12.00 0.00 2.Re3 Qa7 4.Rxf3 03:27 12.11 0.00 2.Bd2 03:36 12.11 0.13 2.Bd2 Qc4 4.Kxf3 Qa2 04:10 13.00 0.06 2.Bd2 Qc4 4.Kxf3 Qa2 04:25 13.01 0.24 2.Re3 Qa7 4.Rxf3 Qa1 5.Kg2 h6 6.Bxh6 Qb2 15:00 14.00 0.02 2.Re3 Qa7 4.Rxf3 Qa1 The first move-number is again not correct, should be 3.Re3. On it's own Q5T thinks that 2. ..h7-h5 is best for some reason and Black remains in the plus after fourteen plies in the Qxf3 line: [FEN "r5k1/2q4p/2b1p1p1/1p1pP1B1/1P1Pp1PP/2P2rn1/2B1Q1K1/R3R3 w - - 0 1"] 1.Qxf3 exf3+ 2.Kxg3 * Last Move : 2.Kxg3 (Black to play) 00:00 04.01 1.74 2..Rxa1 3.Rxa1 Be8 4.Ra8 Kf7 5.Bd3 Qxc3 00:00 05.00 1.14 2..Rxa1 3.Rxa1 Bb7 4.Ra3 Qf7 5.Bf6 g5 6.hxg5 00:00 06.00 1.57 2..Rxa1 3.Rxa1 Bb7 4.Bd2 Qf7 5.Kf2 h5 6.gxh5 gxh5 7.Rg1+ Kh8 00:01 07.00 1.29 2..Rxa1 3.Rxa1 Bb7 4.Bd2 Qe7 5.Bh6 Qf7 6.Kf2 Qc7 00:03 08.00 1.08 2..Rxa1 3.Rxa1 Bb7 4.Bd2 g5 5.Kxf3 gxh4 6.Ke2 Qc6 7.Rf1 Qc4+ 8.Bd3+ 00:03 08.03 1.28 2..h5 3.Kxf3 Bb7 4.Rxa8+ Bxa8 5.Re3 Qc4 00:05 09.00 1.07 2..h5 3.Bxg6 Rf8 4.gxh5 Be8 5.Bxe8 00:19 10.00 1.61 2..h5 3.gxh5 Rxa1 4.Rxa1 Bb7 5.Bd2 gxh5 6.Rg1 Qf7 00:28 11.00 1.61 2..h5 3.gxh5 Rxa1 4.Rxa1 Bb7 5.Bd2 gxh5 00:55 12.00 1.61 2..h5 3.gxh5 Rxa1 4.Rxa1 Bb7 5.Bd2 gxh5 04:53 13.00 0.37 2..h5 3.gxh5 gxh5 4.Kxf3 Bb7 5.Rxa8+ Bxa8 6.Bd2 Qc4 7.Rg1+ Kh8 18:50 13.01 0.46 2..Rxa1 3.Rxa1 Be8 4.Bd2 g5 5.h5 Qf7 6.Rf1 14:30 14.00 0.21 2..Rxa1 3.Rxa1 Be8 4.Bd2 20:00 14.01 0.42 2..h5 3.gxh5 gxh5 4.Kxf3 Bb7 5.Rxa8+ Bxa8 The 1.Rxa8 line Q5T sees as about equal and therefore a better choice for White: [FEN "r5k1/2q4p/2b1p1p1/1p1pP1B1/1P1Pp1PP/2P2rn1/2B1Q1K1/R3R3 w - - 0 1"] 1.Rxa8+ Bxa8 2.Qxb5 * [D] b5k1/2q4p/4p1p1/1Q1pP1B1/1P1Pp1PP/2P2rn1/2B3K1/4R3 b - - 0 1 Last Move : 2.Qxb5 (Black to play) 00:00 03.00 3.14 2..Qxc3 3.Qe8+ Rf8 4.Qxe6+ Rf7 5.Kh3 Qxe1 00:00 04.00 0.00 2..Qxc3 3.Qe8+ Rf8 4.Qxe6+ Rf7 5.Qe8+ Rf8 6.Qe6+ Rf7 7.Qe8+ Rf8 00:01 04.02 2.14 2..Bc6 3.Qc5 h6 4.Bxh6 Nh5 5.gxh5 gxh5+ 00:01 05.00 0.71 2..Bc6 3.Qc5 h6 4.Bd1 Qf7 5.Kh2 Rf2+ 6.Kh3 00:02 06.00 1.83 2..Qc8 3.Kg1 Rxc3 4.Ba4 Bc6 5.Qa5 Bxa4 00:02 06.01 1.83 2..Bc6 00:03 06.01 3.32 2..Bc6 3.Qa5 Qf7 4.Kh2 Rf2+ 5.Kh3 Rxc2 6.Rg1 00:05 07.00 2.01 2..Bc6 3.Qa5 Qf7 4.Bd1 Rxc3 5.Bf6 Be8 00:13 08.00 0.82 2..Bc6 3.Qc5 h6 4.Bd1 hxg5 5.Bxf3 gxh4 6.Be2 00:31 09.00 -0.61 2..Bc6 3.Qc5 h6 4.Bf6 Qd7 5.Kg1 Bb5 01:24 09.12 0.00 2..Qxc3 3.Qe8+ Rf8 4.Qxe6+ Rf7 5.Qe8+ Rf8 6.Qe6+ Rf7 7.Qe8+ Rf8 02:46 10.00 -0.06 2..Qxc3 3.Qe8+ Rf8 4.Qxe6+ Rf7 5.Bh6 Qxc2+ 6.Kh3 Qc6 7.Qxc6 02:51 10.01 -0.06 2..Bc6 14:44 11.00 0.00 2..Qxc3 3.Qe8+ Rf8 4.Qxe6+ Rf7 5.Bh6 Qxc2+ 6.Kxg3 Gambit Tiger's line here was 32...Dxc3 33.De8+ Tf8 34.Dxe6+ Tf7 35.De8+ Tf8 36.De6+ = (0.15) Tiefe: 15 00:24:20 197699kN So that is not too different. However, the fact that Q5T sees -0.42 in the Qxf3 line for White does not mean very much. The position with Rooks as it were circling around a jam-logged centre is very difficult to judge I think, for computers and "chess thinkers" alike? What does Crafty say about Qxf3?
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