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Subject: Re: Hash Table Size Versus Performance.

Author: Robert Hyatt

Date: 10:03:47 06/02/98

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On June 02, 1998 at 10:27:07, Guido Schimmels wrote:

>
>On May 30, 1998 at 09:56:25, Robert Hyatt wrote:
>
>>there are at least a couple of things that could make Fritz far more
>>sensitive to hash table size than other programs:
>>
>>(1) a poor replacement strategy.  If this is true, then a larger table
>>reduces replacement, which would produce better performance.
>>
>>(2) using the table for other things besides the normal score/best move/
>>etc.  If this is true, replacing *any* entry could be bad, depending on
>>what is stored in the table.
>>
>>no one knows what Fritz does, but one of the above reasons is almost
>>certain to be correct.  I'd suspect (2) myself, since replacement
>>strategies are well-known now.
>
>Hi Bob !
>
>Thoughts on (1):
>I heard,  when the hashtable is only  %60 full, Fritz5 already starts to
>suffer
>seriously. Sounds like poor replacement strategie to me.
>Remember Fritz5 is 200,000 nps on Pentium MMX 200. A single instruction
>added to such a fast program causes measurable slow down.
>Sophisticated replacement would drop that number significantly
> - at least if he does q-search hashing which I think he does -
>Frans Morsch may think, RAM is cheap, it's not worth it.
>
>Thoughts on (2):
>Maybe he stores some carefully chosen flags, who knows.
>But  Fritz uses 64-bit entries (32-bit key / 32 bit
>move|score|depth|flags
>I guess), so not much bits left - if any -
>
>- Guido

If he really stores a 32bit hash signature, he is really *playing with
fire*.  That is provably bad with some simple simulations or tests.
Several
of us ran several such tests a few years ago and posted the results in
r.g.c.c..  (or r.g.c as it was then).  32 bits is not nearly enough to
prevent significant numbers of collisions.

I suppose it is possible he does a "single probe" algorithm to drive the
speed up, but the danger is serious, particularly in endgames where the
depth can go wild.  IE in a king and 3 pawn vs king and 3 pawn game this
morning I was seeing 40+ ply searches at 20 seconds per move.  That
gives
plenty of paths to produce collisions that will wreck things...



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