Author: Ed Schröder
Date: 22:38:25 11/18/01
Go up one level in this thread
On November 19, 2001 at 01:04:46, Harald Faber wrote: >On November 18, 2001 at 17:41:22, Thorsten Czub wrote: > >>On November 18, 2001 at 14:20:58, Harald Faber wrote: >>>No, it was just 9 rounds, almost anything is possible. >> >>nonsense. the explanation must be in the games, or the machines. >>or the settings the humans set up. > >Sure the explanation is in the games. :) > >>do we have information about the hardware that was used and about the settings >>of openings and style ? > >Hardware: >Gandalf 4.32 UCI - AMD Athlon 1200 MHz >Junior 7.0 - AMD Athlon 1400 MHz >Hiarcs 7.32 - AMD 1900+ 1600 MHz >Gambit Tiger - AMD 1800+ 1610 MHz >Chessmaster 8777 - AMD 1563 MHz >Shredder 5.0 - AMD 1500 MHz >Fritz 7.0 - AMD 1500 MHz >LambChop 10.87 - AMD 1000 MHz >Rebel Century - AMD XP 1600+ 1333 MHz >Nimzo 8 - AMD 1000 MHz > >Hash size has been around 184-200MB IIRC except Rebel who only had 256MB RAM and >under Win2000 200MB hash made Rebel much slower so I took only 100MB hash which >have been filled within 2 minutes. Might have hurt in some endgame. > >>>Nimzo IS weak, Rebel played...not well. >> >>nonsense. nimzo8 was never weak. the versions before where shit. >>but 8 is ok, for the first time since nimzo guernica this nimzo version was a >>real progress. why do you say it is weak when it isn't. > >Because it IS weak. Plays weak moves and is the worst endgame player between the >commercial programs. > >>>Slowest machine was A-1000 for Nimzo >> >>aha. NIMZO is weak. it seems to me the hardware of nimzo was weaker than the >>hardware the others used. what else was with nimzo. setting ? opening book? >>tablebases ? hash ? > >There have been other PCs which were not significant faster, e.g. the 1200 for >Gandalf. Also Rebel with XP1600+ is only 1333MHz in real. >Nimzo used the default settings like many other programs. Only addition: >TablkeBase depth set to 10 (default is 6) to get Nimzo faster to the TBs before >he loses by bad endgame. Opening book default, complete TBs and around 180-200MB >hash. > >>>Some used own and/or "tuned" opening books, >> >>aha. nimzo is weak !! now we come closer to the reasons. > >Yes, the reason is the engine. > >>> some used the original ones. >> >>some did, some not. WHO ? > >I am not sure. >GT2 aggressive of course played with a special book by Jeroen Noomen like Rebel >did. Junior 7 had some tuned book, edited and modified by Ludwig Bürgin >(operator of Junior7) in many hours of work. And the last tuned opening bbok has >been Chessmaster. Longin Bauer had some special books, one for each opponent and >for each colour. All others have played with the original engine books AFAIK. > >>>Settings have been default except Chessmaster which have been by Stefan Kleinert >> >>despite opening books you mean. > >Special opening books for CM, read above. > >>>(CM 8777). Shredder 5 played the last few rounds with "normal" (default is >>>aggressive). The others played default. Time control in most cases has been >>>40/120+60. >> >>hm.- >> >>thank you harald. > >After the first three rounds=three losses where I have played 40/120 and changed >to g/65 after 40 moves I changed to g/180 which gave better results (the loss >vs. Tiger is normal, best result Rebel can expect vs. Tiger is draw) and didn't >lose a game since that change. One small reason is: After the change to g/65, >Rebel moved MUCH too fast, after 30-60sec each move. What you describe is an old bug in the time control, it has been there since the 80's and I everytime forget to fix it. When you change to "game in xx:yy" in the middle of a game the program actually resets the time control to move 1 as if it is a new game. The effect is that Rebel moves much to fast, factor 2-3. There are 2 cures: 1) When the game starts use the "game in xx:yy" level only. You found out yourself, well done. 2) When you (say) at move 40 want to change the time control to "game in xx:yy" use the formula: (remaining time on the table clock * 2.5) - operator time. Sorry for not informing you. Ed
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