Author: Robert Hyatt
Date: 18:42:31 06/02/98
Go up one level in this thread
On June 02, 1998 at 21:40:42, Robert Hyatt wrote: >On June 02, 1998 at 17:15:04, Komputer Korner wrote: > >>On June 02, 1998 at 12:58:48, Robert Hyatt wrote: >> >>>On June 02, 1998 at 10:47:02, Ulrich Tuerke wrote: >>> >>>>On June 02, 1998 at 10:12:30, Robert Hyatt wrote: >>>> >>>>>On June 02, 1998 at 02:01:43, Komputer Korner wrote: >>>>> >>>>>>On June 02, 1998 at 00:51:08, Havergal Brian wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>>This is part of my Winboard.ini file. So far I've had no >>>>>>>crashes/problems. Just put this in the appropriate spot with >>>>>>>the changes you want. >>>>>>> >>>>>>>/cp >>>>>>>/mg 50 >>>>>>>/sgf wcraftyvscomet >>>>>>>/fcp="comet-wb.exe" >>>>>>>/scp="wcrafty-12_6 xboard" >>>>>> >>>>>>Since I turned pondering off, no more crashes but I still have the >>>>>>problem of Crafty corrupting it's book after a long natch of 40 games. I >>>>>>have to rebuild it's book each time. There is definitely something >>>>>>broken with Crafty's book code because in my latest match Crafty was out >>>>>>of book after 1.e4e5 2.Nf3 !!!!!! >>>>>>-- >>>>>>Kpmputer Korner >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>lets back this trolley up a bit. So far as I can tell, there is >>>>>*nothing* >>>>>wrong with crafty's book code. It is *impossible* for it to corrupt the >>>>>book, because it never adds anything to the book at all. If it were >>>>>doing >>>>>this, we'd be seeing *lots* of problems on the servers where we play 500 >>>>>games >>>>>a day on each program... The problem most likely lies somewhere in your >>>>>setup, whether you have flakey memory, or something else, is unknown. >>>>>But >>>>>I played one 330 game match yesterday crafty vs crafty with *zero* >>>>>problems >>>>>of any kind... >>>>> >>>>>Be careful of "there is definitely something broken with crafty's book >>>>>code." as the evidence doesn't support that when everyone else seems to >>>>>be able to play crafty vs xyz with no problems... >>>> >>>>I have had a similar (the same ?) effect when playing Crafty with >>>>winboard. I think that there is nothing wrong with its book and book >>>>code. May be, KK has installed the small Crafty book as I did. With the >>>>default choice for "book random", Crafty only plays lines the frequency >>>>of which are higher than some threshold value (Bob knows better). >>>>Apparently, the desired frequencies can hardly be reached in the small >>>>book. However if you set "book random 5" instead of the default >>>>randomness for instance, then the threshold is chosen lower and >>>>variations will be found. >>>>May be KK has the same effect. >>> >>> >>>I had explained this danger to KK... "small book" means no useful >>>frequency >>>data to choose moves. It is more than possible that the book is so >>>narrow >>>that after a few games it has learned that moves are bad. >>> >>>This can be verified by adding "show book" to the crafty.rc file, and >>>then >>>starting crafty in a dos window (in the right directory) and then trying >>>the opening moves in question. It will display *every* book move it >>>finds, >>>and will show which are flagged as unplayable "?" due to bad learned >>>results, no wins, or not played enough to "trust"... >> >>What this means then that no matter how large the book is, eventually ( >>it may take a very long time for this to happen) Crafty will not trust >>any book moves and will think on it's own from the beginning. I don't >>like this way of learning. Much better would be learning by adding to >>its book the way that M-chess and 99% of humans do it. > > >not at all, it learns "good" and "bad" stuff... the problem is >different. >If you use a small book, it has no "frequency" data on which to base >it's >move selection. It will *never* play a book move that has no wins, or >which >was not played more than once. So you could have 100,000 positions in >the >file, with only a few hundred that were playable... that's why I never >recommend the "small" book. use the 10mb KKUP book.bin and you won't >have >any odd book problems... one thing I forgot. If you want to play with book learning, please feel free to do so. But if you are going to play comet vs crafty and post the results, please use a decent book. Otherwise the match results can be skewed badly, which sends me off looking for bugs on a wild-goose chase. use a decent book for public matches, use oddball books for private matches and this confusion doesn't happen.
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