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Subject: Re: Hash table usefulness

Author: Jesper Antonsson

Date: 18:04:34 11/24/01

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On November 24, 2001 at 20:35:34, Robert Hyatt wrote:

>On November 24, 2001 at 18:02:59, Jesper Antonsson wrote:
>
>>This is speculation, as I'm not a chess program author myself, but I wonder if
>>anyone has experimented recently and could explain things to me.
>>
>>Machines of today has a tremendous memory bottleneck and I asked myself the
>>other day how come the large hash tables used today are beneficial. I remember
>>figures from long ago when hash tables were said to give a speedup of perhaps
>>3%, but today when processors are 10-20 times faster than main memory, they
>>should give less, perhaps even be detrimental? If you turn of hash tables
>>entirely, how much of an increase does this give in NPS on a 1 Ghz+ processor?
>>Nothing? A lot?
>
>Hash tables have _nothing_ to do with NPS.

You know better. Of course memory references costs.

>They have a _lot_ to do with
>the size of the tree that is searched.  IE try a fixed-depth search (say to
>12 plies) and vary the size of the hash table from small to large.  The size
>of the tree will vary by 2-3X, which is a _significant_ advantage in terms of
>speed.  Even though the raw NPS stays pretty much constant..

Ok, if the tree size decreases that much, I guess hash tables are ok for
now. You may continue. :-)

>>Has anyone experimented with small hashtables, carefully tuned to fit in  cache,
>>and used perhaps only in shallow parts of the tree, and compared the results to
>>the standard "use as much as you have"-approach? *Especially* in lightning
>>games, where a huge hash table won't be filled anyway, a cache-tuned table could
>>perhaps perform better?
>
>
>It would be way too small and get overwritten at a ridiculous rate.
>
>>And by the way, does anyone bother to try to make sure his/her engine itself
>>fits in instruction cache and that the search-function is so aligned that it
>>won't get pushed out of instruction cache by more seldomly used functions?
>>
>>br,
>>Jesper
>
>Most likely everybody does this...

Oh, cool. I haven't heard anything about this, so I thought otherwise, but if
you say so...

Jesper



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