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Subject: Re: High NPS vs. Low NPS

Author: Uri Blass

Date: 03:49:28 11/26/01

Go up one level in this thread


On November 26, 2001 at 00:35:10, Tina Long wrote:

>On November 25, 2001 at 21:19:57, Russell Reagan wrote:
>
>>Why are programs like Chessmaster and Hiarcs, which look at ~75k nps, still able
>>to play a decent game with a "high nps" program like Fritz which looks are
>>approximately 10 times more nps? Are Hiarcs and CM knowledge based programs
>>while Fritz's strength lies in it's speed?
>
>From my non-technical viewpoint you are approximatly correct.
>
>Chessmaster & Hiarcs are examining each node for ten times longer & therefore
>must be "thinking" about a lot more things at each node.

Different programs do not mean to the same thing when they "say" node.
Some programs mean only legal moves when they count nodes when some program
counts also illegal moves.

<snipped>
>I've also noticed that Hiarcs7.32 goes longer in its extensions than Fritz6.
>eg: Hiarcs will after say 2 minutes have looked at 8/31 while Fritz has looked
>at 10/29.  I have no data, I just think I've noticed that.

My data say that Deep Fritz extends more than Hiarcs
Deep Fritz often gets more than 31 when hiarcs cannot do it
Here is one example

Deep Fritz says selective search of 39 after only 5 seconds when hiarcs is never
going to see selective search of 39.

The selective search of Deep Fritz after many hours is 51

bir Har aven - Uri Blass
[D]2kr4/pppq1pp1/2nb1n2/3p4/5Pb1/2PPP2r/PP1BB1NP/R2QKN1R b KQ - 0 1

Analysis by Deep Fritz:

13...Bxe2!
  =  (0.22)   Depth: 1/3   00:00:00
13...Bxe2! 14.Qxe2
    (-0.38)   Depth: 1/3   00:00:00
13...Bf5!
    (-0.41)   Depth: 1/6   00:00:00
13...Bf5 14.Ng3
    (-0.28)   Depth: 2/4   00:00:00
13...Bxe2!
    (-0.38)   Depth: 2/5   00:00:00
13...Bxe2! 14.Qxe2 Re8
    (-0.44)   Depth: 2/6   00:00:00
13...Bxe2 14.Qxe2 Re8 15.0-0-0
    (-0.28)   Depth: 3/8   00:00:00
13...Be6!
    (-0.31)   Depth: 3/8   00:00:00
13...Be6! 14.Ng3
    (-0.34)   Depth: 3/8   00:00:00
13...Be6 14.Rg1 Re8 15.Qb3
    (-0.31)   Depth: 4/12   00:00:00  1kN
13...Bxe2!
    (-0.34)   Depth: 4/12   00:00:00  1kN
13...Bxe2! 14.Qxe2
    (-0.38)   Depth: 4/12   00:00:00  2kN
13...Bxe2 14.Qxe2 Re8 15.0-0-0 Qe7 16.Ng3
  =  (-0.25)   Depth: 5/16   00:00:00  10kN
13...Be6!
    (-0.28)   Depth: 5/16   00:00:00  10kN
13...Be6! 14.Rg1 Re8 15.Qb3 Qe7
    (-0.34)   Depth: 5/16   00:00:00  10kN
13...Rdh8!
    (-0.38)   Depth: 5/20   00:00:00  16kN
13...Rdh8! 14.Bxg4 Nxg4 15.Qb3 Qe6 16.c4 dxc4
    (-0.50)   Depth: 5/20   00:00:00  19kN
13...Rdh8 14.Bxg4 Nxg4 15.Qb3 Qe6 16.c4 dxc4 17.Qxc4 Qxc4
    (-0.50)   Depth: 6/28   00:00:00  31kN
13...Rdh8 14.b4 Bxe2 15.Qxe2 Ng4 16.b5 Ne7 17.b6 cxb6
    (-0.50)   Depth: 7/27   00:00:00  109kN
13...Rdh8 14.b4 Bxe2 15.Qxe2 Qe6 16.b5 Ne7 17.Rg1 Nf5
    (-0.44)   Depth: 8/27   00:00:00  337kN
13...Rdh8 14.b3 Bxe2 15.Qxe2 Ng4 16.0-0-0 Nxh2 17.e4 Ba3+ 18.Kb1 Nxf1 19.Rhxf1
    (-0.59)   Depth: 9/30   00:00:01  928kN
13...Rdh8 14.b3 Bxe2 15.Qxe2 Ng4 16.e4 Nxh2 17.Rxh2 Rxh2 18.exd5 Re8 19.Nxh2
    (-0.59)   Depth: 10/29   00:00:02  1468kN
13...Rdh8 14.b3 Bxe2 15.Qxe2 Ng4 16.e4 Nxh2 17.Rxh2 Rxh2 18.exd5 Re8 19.Nxh2
    (-0.59)   Depth: 11/39   00:00:05  3114kN
13...Rdh8 14.b3 Qe6 15.Rc1 g6 16.c4 d4 17.c5 Be7 18.Rc4 dxe3
    (-0.56)   Depth: 12/36   00:00:27  17417kN
13...Re8!
    (-0.59)   Depth: 12/36   00:00:39  25411kN
13...Re8! 14.b4 Ne7 15.Bxg4 Nxg4 16.Qe2 Reh8 17.e4 Nxh2 18.Rxh2 Rxh2 19.e5
    (-0.69)   Depth: 12/39   00:01:03  40480kN
13...Re8 14.Rc1 Bxe2 15.Qxe2 Nh5 16.e4 f5 17.e5 Bxe5 18.fxe5 Nxe5
    (-0.69)   Depth: 13/40   00:02:50  109196kN
13...Re8 14.b4 Bxe2 15.Qxe2 d4 16.0-0-0 Nd5 17.b5 dxc3 18.bxc6 cxd2+ 19.Kb2
    (-0.81)   Depth: 14/41   00:07:09  267888kN
13...Re8 14.Bxg4 Nxg4 15.Qe2 d4 16.0-0-0 dxe3 17.Be1 Ne7 18.Bg3 Nd5 19.c4
    (-0.97)   Depth: 15/43   00:20:24  781259kN
13...Re8 14.Bxg4 Nxg4 15.Qe2 d4 16.0-0-0 dxe3 17.Be1 Ne7 18.Bg3 Nd5 19.Rg1
    (-0.94)   Depth: 16/44   00:30:51  1201442kN
13...Re8 14.Bxg4 Nxg4 15.Qe2 d4 16.0-0-0 dxe3 17.Be1 Nh6 18.Bg3 Nf5 19.d4
    (-1.09)   Depth: 17/47   01:37:59  3892964kN
13...Re8 14.Bxg4 Nxg4 15.Qe2 g5 16.fxg5 Nce5 17.d4 Nf3+ 18.Kd1 Nxg5 19.Kc1
    (-0.97)   Depth: 18/49   03:08:17  7642666kN
13...Re8 14.Bxg4 Nxg4 15.Qe2 f5 16.Rg1 d4 17.0-0-0 dxe3 18.Be1 Qe6 19.Kb1
    (-1.03)   Depth: 19/48   09:21:04  23586724kN
13...g5!
    (-1.06)   Depth: 19/50   16:29:00  42245850kN
13...g5! 14.fxg5 Ne5 15.Nf4 Nf3+ 16.Kf2 Bxf4 17.exf4 Nxd2 18.Ng3 Bxe2 19.Kxe2
    (-1.16)   Depth: 19/51   19:22:30  49709144kN

(blass, tel-aviv 30.03.2001)

Uri



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