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Subject: Re: not satisfied with deep fritz answers

Author: Slater Wold

Date: 11:08:28 11/29/01

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On November 29, 2001 at 13:41:13, Robert Hyatt wrote:

>On November 28, 2001 at 19:05:19, Slater Wold wrote:
>
>>On November 28, 2001 at 17:53:43, Uri Blass wrote:
>>
>>>On November 28, 2001 at 17:15:49, Slater Wold wrote:
>>>
>>>>On November 28, 2001 at 16:34:12, Uri Blass wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>On November 28, 2001 at 16:03:42, Slater Wold wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>On November 28, 2001 at 15:23:32, K. Burcham wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>does anyone post here that works for chessbase?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Yes.  But they will never answer.  I've written TO chessbase, and never got a
>>>>>>decent answer.
>>>>>
>>>>>I remember that they answered to me few years ago about other things when I had
>>>>>Fritz5.
>>>>>The fact that they did not answer also does not prove that they will never
>>>>>answer.
>>>>
>>>>Example of Chessbase Customer Service:
>>>>
>>>>When I purchased HIARCS 7.32 (several years ago) it came with very few TB's.  I
>>>>wanted to know if I could use the TB's on Hyatt's FTP machine, so I went to
>>>>Chessbase's website, and filled out a form to ask.
>>>>
>>>>A week later I had no response, so I e-mailed Bob.  Within 1 hour, I had an
>>>>answer.  Not from Chessbase, but from Bob.
>>>>
>>>>I believe it was about 3 weeks before I got an e-mail that simply said "yes" in
>>>>it, from Chessbase.
>>>>
>>>>I'd venture to say Hyatt gets 2x the e-mails a day than Chessbase does.  And
>>>>he's just one man.
>>>>
>>>>I've learned to expect this.  Not because I dislike Chessbase, or dislike their
>>>>products.  I've learned to expect this, because this is what they have shown me
>>>>they will do.
>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>has anyone talked to Frans Morsch or Mathias Feist about the difference in kns
>>>>>>>when using one processor or when using two processors with deep fritz.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Not that I know of.  But I don't know anyone who talks to them.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>has anyone talked to chessbase about the low kns when deep fritz is on two
>>>>>>>processors?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>I have tried.  They don't have very good customer service.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>has anyone discussed a patch? or is this low kns for deep fritz what the
>>>>>>>programmers intended when running the deep version? doesnt make sense to me,
>>>>>>>based on other deep programs kns increase.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>It's just bad programming.  And I will continue to think so, until someone from
>>>>>>Chessbase can explain to me otherwise.
>>>>>
>>>>>I prefer not to call it bad programming but inferior programming.
>>>>
>>>>Ok.  So sugar coat it.  Whatever.  Still the same thing.
>>>>
>>>>>It is not easy to teach chess programs to use more than one processor in a
>>>>>correct way.
>>>>
>>>>Not.  It really isn't easy.  Bob has said it took him years to perfect his SMP
>>>>code.
>>>>
>>>>Not easy to build a car though either.  Go buy a brand new car, and have it fall
>>>>apart on you.  How would you feel?
>>>
>>>I did not say that your complain against chessbase is not justified and "it is
>>>not easy" was only to defend the programmers.
>>>
>>>The problem is not the programmers but the fact that chessbase did not tell
>>>correct information about Deep Fritz.
>>>
>>>Uri
>>
>>I'd bet any amount of money that Chessbase probably quoted Frans with that
>>"..80% nonsense.."
>>
>>If they are allowing anyone to sell their product that does not work in the
>>fashion it is being advertised, there is little you can do to defend them.
>>
>>Frans and Mattias are great (chess) programmers.  No doubt about it.  But the
>>SMP in DF doesn't work.  Plain and simple.
>
>
>Here is a question for you:  can you do a one-processor search for exactly 1
>minute and see how many nodes it searched? (ignore knps stuff).  Then do a
>two-processor test and again see the total nodes searched?  Compare those two
>numbers.  If SMP is working, they should be almost exactly doubled.  (note
>that this is not 2x faster because some of those nodes are searched but were
>not necessary).
>
>I have a hell of a time getting my NPS value to display right on windows.  I
>don't know why.  But my nps value is always screwed up, probably due to the
>elapsed time that I use to compute the number...

I have posted that result twice on this forum.  It will be a 1.2x speedup or so.

When I get home I will run a test;  1 position using 1 and 2 CPU's for about 10
minutes.  I will post them here.

I promise a speedup of no more than 1.2x.  And if I can find the position, I
will use the one where 2 CPU's is slower than 1 CPU.

Should be around 6pm central.



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