Author: Uri Blass
Date: 13:48:20 12/01/01
Go up one level in this thread
On November 30, 2001 at 18:52:45, Ed Schröder wrote:
>On November 30, 2001 at 18:17:34, Uri Blass wrote:
>
>>On November 30, 2001 at 17:30:52, Ed Schröder wrote:
>>
>>>On November 30, 2001 at 16:13:12, Uri Blass wrote:
>>>
>>>>On November 30, 2001 at 14:35:37, Christophe Theron wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>On November 30, 2001 at 05:16:46, Jouni Uski wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>... or actually not! Gandalf gains a lot rating points and Tiger loses.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Jouni
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>It is not surprising, because Chess Tiger has been given only partial tablebases
>>>>>during this match.
>>>>>
>>>>>As pointed out somewhere else, because of this lack of TB some wins have been
>>>>>turned into draws.
>>>>>
>>>>>It would have been better to not give any TBs to Tiger at all. I'm sure the
>>>>>result would have been better.
>>>>>
>>>>>This result leaves a bitter taste. Thousands of hours of work (mine and the
>>>>>hours spend by the SSDF testers on this match) spoiled by an inferior setup.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Christophe
>>>>
>>>>I believe that other programs also used exactly the same tablebases.
>>>>
>>>>Uri
>>>
>>>
>>>Not really, have a look at game 35 and you will notice the mate scores of
>>>Gandalf which indicates the right TB's. So there were different conditions.
>>>
>>>Ed
>
>
>>I believe that both sides use the krp vs kr and not the krq vs kr.
>
>
>No Tiger did not had KRP-KR installed, you can see it on the Tiger's wrong
>moves (88.Ra7??) Gandalf on the contrary has the good mate scores and moves
>as a result of a correct set-up of the tables bases. Here is the game.
>
>[Event "Tony Hedlund"]
>[Site "SSDF"]
>[Date "2001.11.28"]
>[Round "35"]
>[White "Gambit Tiger 2 CP A1200"]
>[Black "Gandalf 4.32h A1200"]
>[WhiteElo "2720"]
>[BlackElo "2653"]
>[ECO "D56"]
>[Result "1/2-1/2"]
>
>1. d4 {0s} d5 {book 0s} 2. Nf3 {1s} Nf6 {book 0s} 3. c4
>{1s} e6 {book 0s} 4. Nc3 {1s} Be7 {book 0s} 5. Bg5 {1s} h6
>{book 0s} 6. Bh4 {1s} O-O {book 0s} 7. e3 {1s} Ne4 {book
>0s} 8. Bxe7 {1s} Qxe7 {book 0s} 9. Rc1 {1s} c6 {book 0s}
>10. Bd3 {1s} Nxc3 {book 0s} 11. Rxc3 {1s} Nd7 {book 0s}
>12. O-O {1s} e5 {book 0s} 13. dxe5 {1s} dxc4 {-0.30/13
>7:50m} 14. Rxc4 {1s (Bxc4)} Nxe5 {book 0s} 15. Re4 {1s}
>Nxf3+ {book 0s} 16. Qxf3 {1s} Be6 {book 0s} 17. Bc4 {1s}
>Rad8 {book 0s} 18. Bxe6 {1:16m} fxe6 {book 0s} 19. Qe2
>{54s} Rd5 {book 0s} 20. Rd1 {51s} Rfd8 {+0.03/13 5:56m}
>21. Rxd5 {49s (Red4)} cxd5 {+0.09/14 13:03m} 22. Rd4 {1s}
>Qc5 {+0.06/13 6:49m} 23. Rd3 {1:25m (g3)} Qc1+ {+0.17/13
>4:41m} 24. Rd1 {53s} Qc6 {+0.14/12 3:56m} 25. Qd3 {1:02m
>(b3)} Rc8 {+0.20/13 3:52m} 26. Qg6 {59s} Kh8 {+0.25/12
>3:19m} 27. Rf1 {1s} Qa6 {+0.19/12 6:08m} 28. h4 {59s} Rf8
>{+0.16/13 4:06m} 29. a3 {55s (g3)} Qb6 {+0.08/13 5:01m}
>30. b4 {52s (h5)} Qd6 {+0.01/13 8:19m} 31. Rc1 {1:16m} a6
>{0.00/13 3:26m} 32. Rc3 {1:16m (f4)} Qe5 {-0.04/13 4:49m}
>33. Qc2 {42s} Kg8 {-0.14/14 5:35m} 34. g3 {1s (f4)} Qf5
>{-0.11/14 5:44m} 35. Qxf5 {1s} Rxf5 {-0.25/16 6:48m}
>36. Kf1 {1s} Rf7 {-0.33/15 4:40m} 37. Rc8+ {1:07m} Rf8
>{-0.33/15 2:50m} 38. Rc5 {1s} Rf7 {-0.35/15 3:14m} 39. Ke2
>{1s} Kh7 {-0.43/14 3:52m} 40. h5 {2s (b5)} g5 {-0.46/15
>4:40m} 41. Rc8 {1s (hxg6+)} Kg7 {-0.24/15 3:18m} 42. Re8
>{1s} Kf6 {-0.80/16 12:10m} 43. Rg8 {1s} Rh7 {-0.89/15
>5:19m} 44. Rg6+ {46s} Kf5 {-0.96/15 2:21m} 45. f3 {1s} b5
>{-1.10/14 4:44m} 46. g4+ {2s (Kd3)} Ke5 {0.00/0 0s} 47. Kf2
>{44s} Rh8 {-1.55/17 6:36m} 48. Kg3 {19s} Kd6 {-1.61/16
>2:12m} 49. f4 {1:20m} gxf4+ {-1.47/15 57s} 50. exf4 {41s}
>Ke7 {-1.58/15 1:28m} 51. f5 {1s} exf5 {-1.23/14 2:12m}
>52. gxf5 {1s} d4 {-1.23/14 3:27m} 53. Rxa6 {1:24m} Rd8
>{-1.34/13 38s} 54. Kf2 {4s} Rd5 {-1.53/13 2:11m} 55. Re6+
>{1:07m (Ke2)} Kf8 {-1.40/15 2:15m} 56. Rxh6 {45s} Rxf5+
>{-2.08/14 2:05m} 57. Ke2 {1s} Kg7 {-2.28/15 1:53m} 58. Rd6
>{1s (Rc6)} Rxh5 {-2.52/16 1:57m} 59. Kd3 {1s} Rh4 {-2.80/16
>2:06m} 60. Rd5 {50s} Kf6 {-3.12/17 1:31m} 61. Rxb5 {51s}
>Ke6 {-3.45/16 4:38m} 62. a4 {3s} Kd6 {-3.50/15 2:57m}
>63. Rc5 {55s} Rh3+ {-4.54/16 8:08m} 64. Kxd4 {55s} Rh4+
>{-11.90/18 10:34m} 65. Kc3 {4s} Kd7 {-7.12/16 2:56m} 66. a5
>{58s} Kd6 {-13.60/15 7:08m} 67. a6 {3s} Rh3+ {-18.91/13
>6:16m} 68. Kc4 {1:11m} Rh7 {-18.91/12 30s} 69. Rc8 {57s
>(Kb5)} Ra7 {-25.71/13 4:37m} 70. b5 {52s} Ke6 {-16.83/11
>2:37m} 71. b6 {1:03m (Re8+)} Rg7 {-28.41/10 1:50m} 72. a7
>{1:01m (b7)} Rg4+ {-47.36/9 2:21m} 73. Kb3 {4s (Kb5)} Rg3+
>{-M12/8 1:45m} 74. Rc3 {1:07m} Rg8 {-M9/8 49s} 75. a8=Q {8s
>(b7)} Rxa8 {-M28/15 45s} 76. Kb4 {1s} Kd6 {-M27/64 0s}
>77. Kb5 {1s} Ra1 {-M26/64 0s} 78. Rd3+ {1s} Ke5 {-M25/64
>0s} 79. b7 {1s} Rb1+ {-M24/23 1:27m} 80. Kc6 {1s} Rc1+
>{-M23/19 1:47m} 81. Kd7 {1s} Rb1 {-M22/21 3:48m} 82. Kc7
>{2s (Kc8)} Rc1+ {-M21/64 0s} 83. Kb8 {1s} Rb1 {-M20/64 0s}
>84. Ra3 {1s (Rc3)} Kd6 {-M19/64 0s} 85. Ka8 {1s (Ra7)} Kc7
>{-M18/64 0s} 86. Ra7 {1s} Kd6 {-M17/23 3:05m} 87. Ra6+ {2s
>(b8Q+)} Kc7 {-M20/23 5:08m} 88. Ra7 {1s (Ra4)} Kd6
>{+0.01/64 1s} 89. Ra6+ {1s} Kc7 {+0.01/64 1s} 90. Ra7 {2s}
>Kd6 {+0.01/64 0s} 1/2-1/2
>
>Have a look at Gandalf's -M28, -M27 mate values coming directly from
>the KRP-KR TB.
>
>88.Ra7? is the move that gives away the win. Tiger with an installed
>KRP-KR TB would not play this.
please look at the times
Tiger played moves 76-90 in 1 or 2 seconds when it used more than a minute for
moves 72 or 74.
Tiger without the krp vs kr tablebases could use more time.
The only explanation for the times is that tiger used the krp vs kr tablebases.
I did not check the moves with only the krp vs kr and without the krq vs kr
tablebases.
It is possible that tiger was not set up correctly(for example if it used the
chessbase interface and not the tiger interface) but I am sure that tiger used
the krp vs kr tablebases.
Uri
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