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Subject: Re: There goes the surprise ... / SOUR GRAPES

Author: Roy Eassa

Date: 12:47:26 12/03/01

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Mr Stacey,

When you you used the term "sour grapes" to describe Christophe's claim, I did
indeed think you were accusing him of lying about Tiger's having been
incorrectly configured.  If you were NOT accusing him of lying, I apologize to
you for taking it that way.  What DID you mean to say about his claim when you
used the term "sour grapes"?




On December 03, 2001 at 15:05:31, James Stacey wrote:

>On December 03, 2001 at 14:08:44, Roy Eassa wrote:
>
>>On December 01, 2001 at 18:09:25, James Stacey wrote:
>>
>>>On December 01, 2001 at 15:47:02, Roy Eassa wrote:
>>>
>>>>On December 01, 2001 at 07:47:24, James Stacey wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>If you don't mind me saying, your post looks a bit like sour grapes. Why can't
>>>>>you just admit that Gambit Tiger is no stronger than Gandalf. Instead of trying
>>>>>to find excuses, why don't you give some credit to Gandalf. I am sure that many
>>>>>hours of time have gone into the programming and testing of Gandalf also.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>How do you account for the fact that Tiger has come out significantly ahead of
>>>>Gandalf in about 95% of the dozens of tournaments run in the past 1/2 year?
>>>>There is a lot of evidence that Tiger is stronger.
>>>
>>>Please post this so called evidence along with setups and the tablebases used.
>>>
>>
>>
>>A frequent reader of this message board would have seen dozens of such
>>tournaments posted here.  Since you accused Christophe of "sour grapes" (i.e.,
>>lying),
>
>Mr Eassa,
>
>I have never accused Christophe of lying and would ask you to retract your
>appalling accusation.
>
> perhaps you should spend the hours required to dig out each tournament
>
>Wrong!!!! You say the evidence exists. You dig it out pal.
>
>>result posted and make a case that Gandalf has consistently equaled or exceeded
>>the Tiger programs.
>>
>>
>>>>
>>>>Do you consider it IMPOSSIBLE that Christophe may be correct that Tiger was
>>>>unfairly crippled in this match?
>>>
>>>Lots of improbable things are not impossible.
>>>
>>
>>
>>That is one point I agree with.  However, why do you think it's improbable that
>>Christope is inaccurate about Tiger's having been incorrectly configured?  He
>>has a clear set of criteria for what is a proper configuration, and says that
>>these criteria were NOT met in this match -- i.e., Tiger was crippled.  It's
>>really quite simple.
>
>Perhaps the entire archives of SSDF should be checked for correct configurations
>etc.
>
>>
>>
>>>>
>>>>When Bobby Fischer complained in the '60s that Soviet grandmasters were
>>>>discussing each others' ongoing games in detail (in Russian) at tournaments, he
>>>>was not taken seriously.
>>>
>>>Do you take Fischers' current complaints about America seriously?
>>>
>>
>>
>>What do Fischer's (the apostrophe goes before the s to denote singular
>>possession)
>
>You may know your singular possessions but it is a pity that you don't know what
>sour grapes means. It does not mean lying.
>
> current rantings have to do with whether or not he was proven
>>correct in his claim from the 1960s?  I never said that everything ever claimed
>>by Fischer is correct; I showed that some at least one ridiculed claim of
>>unfairness in chess competition turned out to have been true.
>>
>>
>>>  During the '80s & '90s, several Soviet & former Soviet
>>>>GMs, admitted that Fischer had been correct.  (If I recall correctly, Bronstein
>>>>and Korchnoi were among those.  And wasn't Keres the first?)
>>>
>>>Are you saying that the SSDF are involved in some sort of absurd communist plot
>>>to stop Gambit Tiger from winning?
>>>
>>
>>
>>Once again you have changed the subject entirely.  In an analogy, each party
>>REPRESENTS a corresponding party in the original situation.  I'm sorry if you
>>did not understand that.  Thus the cheating of the Soviet players is analogous
>>to the improper configuration of Tiger.  It does not mean that the SSDF are
>>communists.
>
>Then are you saying that they are just cheating? Why don't you say what you
>mean.
>
>  The analogy was extended for the purpose of demonstrating that
>>there is at least one historical precedent in which accusations of unfairness in
>>chess were proven true.  (If you are a young child who has not learned about
>>analogies in school yet, I apologize.  You might wish to fill in your CCC
>>profile so readers know your age.)
>
>As far as I know the filling in of profiles is not compulsary. Are you the owner
>of this site or a moderator? If not then I would ask you to mind your own
>business.
>
>>
>>
>>>>
>>>>Not all claims of unfairness are sour grapes.  Some happen to be objectively
>>>>accurate.
>>>
>>>There is no such thing as objectivety.
>>>
>>
>>
>>There is no objective truth??  In that case, any and all arguments are a
>>complete waste of time.
>
>Especially yours!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
>
>  But if that's not what you meant, let me explain:  I
>>didn't say that there are people who are always 100% objective.  I said that
>>there are claims that are objectively true, just as their are claims that are
>>objectively false.
>>
>>You have accused Christophe of lying
>
>No I have not. Therefore you are either an idiot or a LIAR.
>
> when he made his simple claim that Tiger
>>was configured incorrectly.  The truth of his claim is quite simple to verify.
>>If his claim is true, will you be proven wrong and should retract your
>>accusation of lying.  (Even if his claim is false, lying would be only one of
>>the possible reasons.)
>
>Yet again you mention lying. Because of this, I consider your post to be nothing
>more than a ludicrous disgusting troll.
>
>Best Regards
>
>James Stacey
>
>>
>>
>>Best regards,
>>
>>  -Roy.



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