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Subject: Re: Pawn Hashkey Size

Author: Tony Werten

Date: 00:51:28 12/04/01

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On December 03, 2001 at 18:36:50, David Rasmussen wrote:

>On December 03, 2001 at 18:05:43, Sune Fischer wrote:
>
>>On December 03, 2001 at 17:50:15, David Rasmussen wrote:
>>
>>>On December 02, 2001 at 23:58:43, Robert Hyatt wrote:
>>>
>>>>On December 02, 2001 at 22:38:30, David Rasmussen wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>Many people use 32-bit pawn hashkeys. But I've found that 32 bits is not enough
>>>>>to avoid collisions. 64-bit seems to be enough, and maybe less could do the job.
>>>>>Why do people use 32-bit keys, when it screws up evaluation this way?
>>>>>
>>>>>/David
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>32 is ok for pawns.  To see why, figure out how many _different_ positions
>>>>there are with only pawns on the board.  The number is not as large as you
>>>>might think, which makes collisions unlikely so long as you _only_ hash pawn
>>>>positions.
>>>
>>>Are you saying that if I'm seeing collisions, I have a bug, or are you saying
>>>that 300 collisions out of 60.000.000 successful probes is not a problem? If the
>>>latter, then why? How can you be sure?
>>>
>>>/David
>>
>>I would say so, 300 collisions is way too high, even if you used a 32^2 entry
>>size table you shouldnt get more than 1 collision per 100 game or so.
>>Using a smaller table will decrease the probability even further.
>>
>>-S.
>
>Mmm.. But I use a wellknown good PRNG, the avg. hamming distance of the keys is
>good, the distribution of the keys is good, and I have no collisions at all
>using this PRNG for generating my 64-bit keys for the trans/ref table.

Having good 64 bit keys doesn't mean you can chop them in half and have 2 good
32 bit keys.

easy example:
1111 and 0011 are different in 50% of all bits, wich is quite good. Take half of
the bits and you end up with 11 and 11 wich is "not quite as good". ( although
the other half (00 and 11) scores 100%)

Tony

>find my bug... I seriously doubt that there's a bug, but one always does... :)
>Any ideas of how to find such a bug?



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