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Subject: Re: Too difficult for programs?yace only material results

Author: Uri Blass

Date: 07:59:05 12/04/01

Go up one level in this thread


On December 04, 2001 at 10:37:46, Uri Blass wrote:

>On December 04, 2001 at 09:58:50, Uri Blass wrote:
>
>>On December 03, 2001 at 21:05:39, Andrew Smith wrote:
>>
>>>[D]r1nq1r1k/p2b1pbp/1p4p1/2pNp3/RP1PP3/4BN1P/2P2PP1/2QR2K1 w KQkq - 0 1
>>>
>>>dxe5!! apparently gives white a huge adavantage in this position, followed by
>>>Bg5. The line looks to be very long. I played around the position with gambit
>>>tiger and forced the move and followed its analysis some ten moves deep, until
>>>it finally showed a positive score for white. According to this it would have
>>>taken more than twenty plies (!?) in the original position. Can any program find
>>>this move? Is it even possible?
>>
>>Yace only material analysis after dxe5
>>Bxa4(pawn=0.8,knight=3.4,bishop=3.5,rook=5,queen=10.01)
>>
>>The score at depth 13 is 2.60 against white
>>The score at depth 15 is 1.60 against white
>>
>>I evaluate that depth 19 is going to be enough for it to see positive score for
>>white but I do not promise to continue to analyze to this depth.
>>
>>New position
>>[D]r1nq1r1k/p4pbp/1p4p1/2pNP3/bP2P3/4BN1P/2P2PP1/2QR2K1 w - - 0 1
>>
>>Analysis by Yace 0.99.56:
>>
>>2.bxc5
>>  -+  (-3.50)   Depth: 1   00:00:09
>>2.bxc5 bxc5
>>  -+  (-3.50)   Depth: 2   00:00:09
>>2.bxc5 bxc5 3.Bxc5 Rg8
>>  -+  (-3.50)   Depth: 3   00:00:10
>>2.bxc5 bxc5 3.Bxc5 Rg8 4.Bd4
>>  -+  (-3.50)   Depth: 4   00:00:12
>>2.Bg5 Qxg5 3.Nxg5 Bxc2
>>  -+  (-3.49)   Depth: 4   00:00:14
>>2.Bg5 Qe8 3.Nc7 Qc6
>>  -+  (-2.70)   Depth: 4   00:00:14
>>2.Bg5 Qe8 3.Nc7 Qc6 4.Nxa8
>>  -+  (-2.70)   Depth: 5   00:00:16  9kN
>>2.Bg5 Qe8 3.Nc7 Qc6 4.Nxa8 Qxa8
>>  -+  (-2.70)   Depth: 6   00:00:22  22kN
>>2.bxc5 bxc5 3.Bxc5 Qe8 4.Bxf8 Kg8
>>  -+  (-2.69)   Depth: 6   00:00:34  52kN
>>2.bxc5 Rb8 3.Nxb6 Qe8 4.Nxa4 Qxa4
>>  -+  (-2.60)   Depth: 6   00:00:35  59kN
>>2.bxc5 Rb8 3.Nxb6 Qe8 4.Nxa4 Qxa4 5.Rd4 Qb5
>>  -+  (-2.60)   Depth: 7   00:00:42  121kN
>>2.bxc5 Rb8 3.Nxb6 Qe8 4.Nxa4 Qxa4 5.Rd4 Qb5 6.Rd3
>>  -+  (-2.60)   Depth: 8   00:00:42  418kN
>>2.bxc5 Qe8 3.Nc7 Qc6 4.Nxa8 Qxa8 5.cxb6 axb6 6.e6 fxe6 7.Ng5
>>  -+  (-2.70)   Depth: 9   00:00:44  1268kN
>>2.bxc5 Rb8 3.Nxb6 Qe8 4.Nxa4 Qxa4 5.Bd4 Qb5 6.Nd2 f6 7.exf6
>>  -+  (-2.60)   Depth: 10   00:00:48  3140kN
>>2.bxc5 Rb8 3.Nxb6 Qe8 4.Nxa4 Qxa4 5.Bd4 Qb5 6.Nd2 f6 7.exf6 Bxf6
>>  -+  (-2.60)   Depth: 11   00:00:55  8248kN
>>2.bxc5 Rb8 3.Nxb6 Qe8 4.Nxa4 Qxa4 5.Bd4 Qb5 6.Nd2 f6 7.exf6 Bxf6 8.Bxf6+ Rxf6
>>  -+  (-2.60)   Depth: 12   00:01:25  27091kN
>>2.bxc5 Rb8 3.Nxb6 Qe8 4.Nxa4 Qxa4 5.Bd4 Qb5 6.Nd2 f6 7.exf6 Bxf6 8.Bxf6+ Rxf6
>>9.Qa1 Qc6
>>  -+  (-2.60)   Depth: 13   00:02:53  80942kN
>>2.bxc5 Rb8 3.Bg5 Qe8 4.Bf6 Qc6 5.Bxg7+ Kxg7 6.Nd4 Qd7 7.Nf5+ gxf5 8.Nf6 Bc6
>>9.Nxd7 Bxd7
>>  -+  (-2.20)   Depth: 14   00:08:09  263330kN
>>2.bxc5 Qe8 3.Nc7 Qc6 4.Nxa8 Qxa8 5.cxb6 Nxb6 6.Re1 Bc6 7.Bc5 Rc8 8.Bxb6 axb6
>>9.Ng5
>>  -+  (-2.00)   Depth: 14   00:19:06  634895kN
>>2.Bg5 Qe8 3.Bf6 Qc6 4.e6 fxe6 5.Bxg7+ Kxg7 6.Qa1+ Kg8 7.Nf6+ Rxf6 8.Qxf6 Nd6
>>9.Ne5 Nf7 10.Nxc6 Bxc6
>>  -+  (-1.99)   Depth: 14   00:20:50  694408kN
>>2.Bg5 Qe8 3.Bf6 Qc6 4.e6 fxe6 5.Bxg7+ Kxg7 6.Qa1+ Kg8 7.Nf6+ Rxf6 8.Qxf6 Nd6
>>9.Ne5 Qc7 10.Qxe6+ Nf7 11.Rd7 Qxe5
>>  -+  (-1.90)   Depth: 14   00:21:37  721483kN
>>2.Bg5 Qe8 3.Bf6 Qc6 4.e6 Qxe6 5.Bxg7+ Kxg7 6.Qa1+ f6 7.Qxa4 Rb8 8.bxc5 bxc5
>>9.Nc7 Qb6 10.c4 Kg8 11.Rd7
>>  -+  (-1.60)   Depth: 15   00:28:39  968855kN
>>
>>(Blass, Tel-aviv 04.12.2001)
>>
>>
>>Uri
>
>Yace continues to get progress in score
>Here is depth 16 results and suddenly it is only 1 pawn for black:
>
>2.Bg5 Qe8 3.Bf6 Qc6 4.e6 Qxe6 5.Qa1 Bxf6 6.Nxf6 Bxc2 7.Ng5 Qc4 8.Nfxh7+ f6 9.Rd8
>Kg8 10.Rxf8+ Kg7
>  µ  (-1.20)   Depth: 16   00:48:11  1625444kN
>2.Bg5 Qe8 3.Bf6 Qc6 4.e6 Qxe6 5.Qa1 Bxf6 6.Nxf6 Qc6 7.Nd7+ f6 8.Nxf8 Bxc2 9.Rd8
>Kg7 10.bxc5 bxc5 11.e5
>  µ  (-0.90)   Depth: 16   01:01:57  2089740kN
>
>(Blass, Tel-aviv 04.12.2001)
>
>Uri

Here is yace only material's opinion after going back(I did not give yace time
to get a score at depth 17 and I prefered to take moves back)

You can see that the score is also going up without dxe5 so I am not sure if the
position is a good test position(yace can see only 0.1 for black and if the
score continues to improve then it is possible that there is more then one
winning move)

New position
[D]r1nq1r1k/p2b1pbp/1p4p1/2pNp3/RP1PP3/4BN1P/2P2PP1/2QR2K1 w - - 0 1

Analysis by Yace 0.99.56:

1.Nxb6 Nxb6
  -+  (-2.70)   Depth: 1   00:00:00
1.dxe5 Bxa4 2.Bg5 Qe8 3.Bf6 Qc6 4.e6 fxe6 5.Bxg7+ Kxg7
  µ  (-0.90)   Depth: 1   00:00:00
1.Bg5
  =  (-0.10)   Depth: 1   00:00:00
1.Bg5 Qe8
  =  (-0.10)   Depth: 2   00:00:00
1.Bg5 f6 2.Nxb6 Bxa4
  µ  (-0.80)   Depth: 3   00:00:00
1.Bg5 f6 2.Nxb6 Bxa4 3.Nxa8 fxg5
  -+  (-2.00)   Depth: 3   00:00:00
1.dxe5 Bxa4 2.Bg5 Qe8 3.Bf6 Qc6 4.e6 fxe6 5.Bxg7+ Kxg7
  µ  (-0.90)   Depth: 3   00:00:00
1.dxe5 Bxa4 2.Bg5 Qe8 3.Bf6 Qc6 4.e6 fxe6 5.Bxg7+ Kxg7
  µ  (-0.90)   Depth: 4   00:00:00
1.dxe5 Bxa4 2.Bg5 Qe8 3.Bf6 Qc6 4.e6 fxe6 5.Bxg7+ Kxg7
  µ  (-0.90)   Depth: 5   00:00:00  12kN
1.dxe5 Bxa4 2.Bg5 Qe8 3.Bf6 Qc6 4.e6 fxe6 5.Bxg7+ Kxg7
  µ  (-0.90)   Depth: 6   00:00:00  29kN
1.dxe5 Bxa4 2.Bg5 Qe8 3.Bf6 Qc6 4.e6 fxe6 5.Bxg7+ Kxg7
  µ  (-0.90)   Depth: 7   00:00:00  93kN
1.dxe5 Bxa4 2.Bg5 Qe8 3.Bf6 Qc6 4.e6 fxe6 5.Bxg7+ Kxg7
  µ  (-0.90)   Depth: 8   00:00:00  250kN
1.dxe5 Bxa4 2.Bg5 Qe8 3.Bf6 Qc6 4.e6 fxe6 5.Bxg7+ Kxg7
  µ  (-0.90)   Depth: 9   00:00:01  879kN
1.dxe5 Bxa4 2.Bg5 Qe8 3.Bf6 Qc6 4.e6 fxe6 5.Bxg7+ Kxg7
  µ  (-0.90)   Depth: 10   00:00:03  2451kN
1.dxe5 Bxa4 2.Bg5 Qe8 3.Bf6 Qc6 4.e6 fxe6 5.Bxg7+ Kxg7
  µ  (-0.90)   Depth: 11   00:00:12  7934kN
1.dxe5 Bxa4 2.Bg5 Qe8 3.Bf6 Qc6 4.e6 fxe6 5.Bxg7+ Kxg7
  µ  (-0.90)   Depth: 12   00:00:33  21512kN
1.Ra3 cxd4 2.Bh6 f6 3.Bxg7+ Kxg7 4.c3 dxc3 5.Nc7 Qxc7 6.Rxc3 Qxc3 7.Qxc3 Bxh3
  µ  (-0.89)   Depth: 12   00:02:04  73105kN
1.Ra3 cxd4 2.Bh6 f6 3.Bxg7+ Kxg7 4.c3 dxc3 5.Nc7 Qxc7 6.Rxc3 Bc6 7.Rxc6 Qb8
8.Rc7+ Kh8
  µ  (-0.80)   Depth: 12   00:02:13  78203kN
1.Ra3 cxd4 2.Bh6 Bxh6 3.Qxh6 f6 4.c3 Nd6 5.cxd4 exd4 6.Nxd4 Nxe4 7.Rda1 Bxh3
  µ  (-0.80)   Depth: 13   00:03:33  124610kN
1.Ra1 cxd4 2.Bh6 f6 3.c3 dxc3 4.Nxf6 Rxf6 5.Nxe5 Bxh6 6.Qxh6 Rxf2 7.Kxf2 Bb5
  µ  (-0.79)   Depth: 13   00:06:49  238215kN
1.Ra1 cxd4 2.Bh6 f6 3.c3 dxc3 4.Nxf6 Bxf6 5.Bxf8 Qxf8 6.Rxd7 Qxb4 7.Kh2 Qxe4
8.Qxc3
  =  (-0.10)   Depth: 13   00:08:24  291226kN

(Blass, Tel-aviv 04.12.2001)

Uri



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