Author: Vincent Diepeveen
Date: 15:56:31 12/05/01
Go up one level in this thread
On December 05, 2001 at 03:30:35, Uri Blass wrote: I guess Russell was speaking about chessmaster and the internet winboard engines. It is true that when engines use stuff like singular extensions that they die bigtime. Therefore i recently threw out singular extensions again. Another problem is how well the hashtable gets used and how big it is. Using a default hashtable which is real tiny and using that for overnights searches is not real smart. >On December 05, 2001 at 03:12:49, Russell Reagan wrote: > >>If I run any top chess program, eventually the program doesn't get any new best >>move. Is this because the next ply is simply taking too long, or is it because >>the engine isn't designed to do searches for long periods of time (like days or >>weeks)? > >It is simply not truth(the only problem that I know is a bug in Deep Fritz >interface so I cannot see analysis after more than 100 hours > >program usually have a constant branching factor. >If the last ply took x hours then you can expect the next ply to take 3x hours. > > >I post 3 examples when programs change their mind after many hours(the first 2 >are Deep Fritz when the last example is gambittiger): > >Abir Har aven - Uri Blass >[D]2kr4/pppq1pp1/2nb1n2/3p4/5Pb1/2PPP2r/PP1BB1NP/R2QKN1R b KQ - 0 1 > >Analysis by Deep Fritz: > >13...Bxe2! > = (0.22) Depth: 1/3 00:00:00 >13...Bxe2! 14.Qxe2 > ³ (-0.38) Depth: 1/3 00:00:00 >13...Bf5! > ³ (-0.41) Depth: 1/6 00:00:00 >13...Bf5 14.Ng3 > ³ (-0.28) Depth: 2/4 00:00:00 >13...Bxe2! > ³ (-0.38) Depth: 2/5 00:00:00 >13...Bxe2! 14.Qxe2 Re8 > ³ (-0.44) Depth: 2/6 00:00:00 >13...Bxe2 14.Qxe2 Re8 15.0-0-0 > ³ (-0.28) Depth: 3/8 00:00:00 >13...Be6! > ³ (-0.31) Depth: 3/8 00:00:00 >13...Be6! 14.Ng3 > ³ (-0.34) Depth: 3/8 00:00:00 >13...Be6 14.Rg1 Re8 15.Qb3 > ³ (-0.31) Depth: 4/12 00:00:00 1kN >13...Bxe2! > ³ (-0.34) Depth: 4/12 00:00:00 1kN >13...Bxe2! 14.Qxe2 > ³ (-0.38) Depth: 4/12 00:00:00 2kN >13...Bxe2 14.Qxe2 Re8 15.0-0-0 Qe7 16.Ng3 > = (-0.25) Depth: 5/16 00:00:00 10kN >13...Be6! > ³ (-0.28) Depth: 5/16 00:00:00 10kN >13...Be6! 14.Rg1 Re8 15.Qb3 Qe7 > ³ (-0.34) Depth: 5/16 00:00:00 10kN >13...Rdh8! > ³ (-0.38) Depth: 5/20 00:00:00 16kN >13...Rdh8! 14.Bxg4 Nxg4 15.Qb3 Qe6 16.c4 dxc4 > ³ (-0.50) Depth: 5/20 00:00:00 19kN >13...Rdh8 14.Bxg4 Nxg4 15.Qb3 Qe6 16.c4 dxc4 17.Qxc4 Qxc4 > ³ (-0.50) Depth: 6/28 00:00:00 31kN >13...Rdh8 14.b4 Bxe2 15.Qxe2 Ng4 16.b5 Ne7 17.b6 cxb6 > ³ (-0.50) Depth: 7/27 00:00:00 109kN >13...Rdh8 14.b4 Bxe2 15.Qxe2 Qe6 16.b5 Ne7 17.Rg1 Nf5 > ³ (-0.44) Depth: 8/27 00:00:00 337kN >13...Rdh8 14.b3 Bxe2 15.Qxe2 Ng4 16.0-0-0 Nxh2 17.e4 Ba3+ 18.Kb1 Nxf1 19.Rhxf1 > ³ (-0.59) Depth: 9/30 00:00:01 928kN >13...Rdh8 14.b3 Bxe2 15.Qxe2 Ng4 16.e4 Nxh2 17.Rxh2 Rxh2 18.exd5 Re8 19.Nxh2 > ³ (-0.59) Depth: 10/29 00:00:02 1468kN >13...Rdh8 14.b3 Bxe2 15.Qxe2 Ng4 16.e4 Nxh2 17.Rxh2 Rxh2 18.exd5 Re8 19.Nxh2 > ³ (-0.59) Depth: 11/39 00:00:05 3114kN >13...Rdh8 14.b3 Qe6 15.Rc1 g6 16.c4 d4 17.c5 Be7 18.Rc4 dxe3 > ³ (-0.56) Depth: 12/36 00:00:27 17417kN >13...Re8! > ³ (-0.59) Depth: 12/36 00:00:39 25411kN >13...Re8! 14.b4 Ne7 15.Bxg4 Nxg4 16.Qe2 Reh8 17.e4 Nxh2 18.Rxh2 Rxh2 19.e5 > ³ (-0.69) Depth: 12/39 00:01:03 40480kN >13...Re8 14.Rc1 Bxe2 15.Qxe2 Nh5 16.e4 f5 17.e5 Bxe5 18.fxe5 Nxe5 > ³ (-0.69) Depth: 13/40 00:02:50 109196kN >13...Re8 14.b4 Bxe2 15.Qxe2 d4 16.0-0-0 Nd5 17.b5 dxc3 18.bxc6 cxd2+ 19.Kb2 > µ (-0.81) Depth: 14/41 00:07:09 267888kN >13...Re8 14.Bxg4 Nxg4 15.Qe2 d4 16.0-0-0 dxe3 17.Be1 Ne7 18.Bg3 Nd5 19.c4 > µ (-0.97) Depth: 15/43 00:20:24 781259kN >13...Re8 14.Bxg4 Nxg4 15.Qe2 d4 16.0-0-0 dxe3 17.Be1 Ne7 18.Bg3 Nd5 19.Rg1 > µ (-0.94) Depth: 16/44 00:30:51 1201442kN >13...Re8 14.Bxg4 Nxg4 15.Qe2 d4 16.0-0-0 dxe3 17.Be1 Nh6 18.Bg3 Nf5 19.d4 > µ (-1.09) Depth: 17/47 01:37:59 3892964kN >13...Re8 14.Bxg4 Nxg4 15.Qe2 g5 16.fxg5 Nce5 17.d4 Nf3+ 18.Kd1 Nxg5 19.Kc1 > µ (-0.97) Depth: 18/49 03:08:17 7642666kN >13...Re8 14.Bxg4 Nxg4 15.Qe2 f5 16.Rg1 d4 17.0-0-0 dxe3 18.Be1 Qe6 19.Kb1 > µ (-1.03) Depth: 19/48 09:21:04 23586724kN >13...g5! > µ (-1.06) Depth: 19/50 16:29:00 42245850kN >13...g5! 14.fxg5 Ne5 15.Nf4 Nf3+ 16.Kf2 Bxf4 17.exf4 Nxd2 18.Ng3 Bxe2 19.Kxe2 > µ (-1.16) Depth: 19/51 19:22:30 49709144kN > >(blass, tel-aviv 30.03.2001) > >Uri Blass - Yoav duthan >[D]b5r1/1q2bp1k/4p3/1PB1n1p1/2P1P2p/P4P1P/1N1R1QP1/7K b - - 0 1 > >Analysis by Deep Fritz: > >37...Bf6! > ² (0.50) Depth: 1/7 00:00:00 >37...Bf6 38.Bd4 > ² (0.56) Depth: 2/3 00:00:00 >37...Bf6 38.Bd4 > ² (0.56) Depth: 2/3 00:00:00 >37...Bf6 38.Bd4 > ² (0.56) Depth: 2/3 00:00:00 >37...Bf6 38.Bd4 > ² (0.56) Depth: 2/3 00:00:00 >37...Bf6 38.Bd4 Rd8 > ² (0.37) Depth: 3/12 00:00:00 >37...Bf6 38.a4 Qc7 39.Bd4 > ² (0.62) Depth: 4/12 00:00:01 1kN >37...Rb8! > ² (0.59) Depth: 4/12 00:00:01 2kN >37...Rb8! 38.Bxe7 Qxe7 39.Qe3 f5 > ² (0.56) Depth: 4/12 00:00:01 2kN >37...Rc8! > ² (0.53) Depth: 4/12 00:00:01 3kN >37...Rc8 38.Bxe7 Qxe7 39.Qd4 Qc7 40.Qe3 Nxc4 > ² (0.53) Depth: 5/14 00:00:03 7kN >37...Rc8 38.Bxe7 Qxe7 39.Qd4 Qc7 40.b6 Qb8 > ² (0.56) Depth: 6/20 00:00:05 18kN >37...Rd8! > ² (0.53) Depth: 6/20 00:00:06 26kN >37...Rd8 38.Bxe7 Rxd2 39.Qxd2 Qxe7 40.Qd4 Nd7 41.a4 > ± (0.72) Depth: 7/19 00:00:09 62kN >37...Rc8! > ² (0.69) Depth: 7/19 00:00:10 72kN >37...Rc8! 38.Bxe7 Qxe7 39.Qd4 f6 40.Qd6 Qe8 41.Rd4 > ² (0.62) Depth: 7/19 00:00:10 79kN >37...Rc8 38.Bxe7 Qxe7 39.Qd4 f6 40.Qd6 Qe8 41.Rd4 Bb7 > ² (0.56) Depth: 8/22 00:00:13 162kN >37...Rc8 38.Bxe7 Qxe7 39.Qd4 f6 40.a4 Qb4 41.Qd6 Qxd6 42.Rxd6 Nxc4 43.Nxc4 > ± (0.75) Depth: 9/22 00:00:13 384kN >37...Bf6! > ± (0.72) Depth: 9/26 00:00:14 458kN >37...Bf6-- > ± (1.03) Depth: 10/30 00:00:15 1410kN >37...Bf6-- > ± (1.03) Depth: 10/30 00:00:16 1607kN >37...Rc8! > ± (1.00) Depth: 10/30 00:00:16 1666kN >37...Rc8! 38.Bxe7 Qxe7 39.Qd4 f6 40.a4 Qb4 41.Qd6 Qxd6 42.Rxd6 Nxc4 43.Nxc4 > ± (0.75) Depth: 10/30 00:00:16 1855kN >37...Rc8 38.Bxe7 Qxe7 39.Qd4 f6 40.a4 Qb4 41.Qd6 Qxd6 42.Rxd6 Nxc4 43.Nxc4 > ± (0.75) Depth: 11/28 00:00:19 3340kN >37...Rc8 38.Bxe7 Qxe7 39.Qd4 f6 40.Qd6 Qe8 41.Qb4 Rb8 42.Nd3 Nxd3 43.Rxd3 > ² (0.62) Depth: 12/30 00:00:25 6928kN >37...Rc8 38.Bxe7 Qxe7 39.Qd4 f6 40.Qd6 Qxd6 41.Rxd6 Nxc4 42.Nxc4 Rxc4 43.Rxe6 > ± (0.81) Depth: 13/32 00:00:39 16058kN >37...Rc8 38.Bxe7 Qxe7 39.Qd4 f6 40.Qd6 Qxd6 41.Rxd6 Nxc4 42.Nxc4 Rxc4 43.Rxe6 > ± (0.78) Depth: 14/34 00:01:40 55110kN >37...Rc8 38.Bxe7 Qxe7 39.Qd4 f6 40.Qd6 Qxd6 41.Rxd6 Nxc4 42.Nxc4 Rxc4 43.Rxe6 > ± (0.75) Depth: 15/36 00:03:56 144915kN >37...Rc8 38.Bxe7 Qxe7 39.Qd4 f6 40.Qd6 Qxd6 41.Rxd6 Nxc4 42.Nxc4 Rxc4 43.Rxe6 > ± (0.91) Depth: 16/38 00:10:35 408636kN >37...Rc8 38.Bxe7 Qxe7 39.Qd4 Qc7 40.a4 f5 41.b6 Qg7 42.exf5 exf5 43.a5 > ± (1.03) Depth: 17/41 00:57:36 2262194kN >37...f5! > ± (1.00) Depth: 17/43 01:55:57 4551973kN >37...f5 38.Bd4 Ng6 39.exf5 exf5 40.a4 g4 41.fxg4 Bg5 42.Rc2 fxg4 > ± (0.94) Depth: 18/45 08:19:23 19877878kN >37...Rc8! > ± (0.91) Depth: 18/45 08:25:34 20128214kN >37...Rc8 38.Bxe7 Qxe7 39.Qd4 f6 40.Qd6 Qxd6 41.Rxd6 Nxc4 42.Nxc4 Rxc4 43.Rxe6 > ± (0.94) Depth: 19/45 11:22:58 27255187kN >37...f5! > ± (0.91) Depth: 19/46 13:59:31 33535260kN >37...f5! 38.Bxe7 Qxe7 39.exf5 Rf8 40.Qe3 Rxf5 41.Rf2 Qc7 42.a4 > ± (0.84) Depth: 19/48 21:53:43 52607385kN > > >Uri Blass - Yoav duthan >[D]bq4r1/4b2k/4p3/1P2npp1/P1P1P2p/4BP1P/1N1R1QP1/7K w - f6 0 1 > >Analysis by Gambit Tiger 2.0: > >37.Ba7 Qc7 38.Bb6 Qb8 39.exf5 Bb4 40.Re2 exf5 > ² (0.40) Depth: 7 00:00:00 82kN >37.exf5 exf5 38.Ba7 Qe8 39.c5 f4 40.c6 Bb4 > ± (0.82) Depth: 7 00:00:00 146kN >37.exf5 exf5 38.Ba7 Qc8 39.c5 f4 40.c6 Bb4 41.Rd4 > ± (0.82) Depth: 8 00:00:01 246kN >37.exf5 exf5 38.Ba7 Qc8 39.c5 Rd8 40.c6 Bb4 41.Rxd8 Qxd8 42.Bc5 > ± (1.02) Depth: 9 00:00:02 517kN >37.exf5 exf5 38.Ba7 Qc8 39.c5 Rd8 40.Rxd8 Qxd8 41.c6 Bb4 42.Bc5 > ± (1.02) Depth: 10 00:00:04 1044kN >37.exf5 exf5 38.Bd4 Bb4 39.Rd1 Ng6 40.c5 Bd5 41.Nd3 Ba5 42.c6 Bb3 > ± (1.08) Depth: 11 00:00:26 6109kN >37.exf5 exf5 38.c5 f4 39.Bd4 Re8 40.Qe1 Bf6 41.Qb1+ Kg7 42.c6 Rd8 43.Qe1 Rd5 > ± (1.36) Depth: 12 00:01:40 24340kN >37.exf5 exf5 38.c5 f4 39.Bd4 Bd5 40.Bc3 Rd8 41.c6 Be6 42.Rxd8 Bxd8 43.Qc5 Bf6 >44.Qd4 > ± (1.30) Depth: 13 00:02:54 42339kN >37.exf5 exf5 38.c5 Rg6 39.Bd4 Bd5 40.Rd1 Bf6 41.c6 Bb3 42.Rc1 Qd6 43.Ba7 Qd8 >44.a5 Qxa5 > +- (1.42) Depth: 14 00:14:06 224597kN >37.exf5 exf5 38.c5 Rg6 39.Bd4 Bd5 40.Re2 Bf6 41.f4 gxf4 42.Qxf4 Nc6 43.Qxb8 Nxb8 >44.Bxf6 Rxf6 45.a5 > +- (1.48) Depth: 15 00:33:29 535898kN >37.exf5 g4 38.Ba7 Qf8 39.fxg4 Nxg4 40.hxg4 Rxg4 41.Qe3 Qxf5 42.Qh3 Qf1+ 43.Bg1 >Rg3 44.Qh2 Be4 45.a5 > ± (1.24) Depth: 16 02:01:12 2015982kN >37.exf5 g4 38.Ba7 Qf8 39.fxg4 Nxg4 40.hxg4 Rxg4 41.Qe3 Qxf5 42.Qh3 Qf1+ 43.Bg1 >Rg3 44.Qh2 Be4 45.a5 > ± (1.16) Depth: 17 04:41:24 4736653kN >37.Ba7 Qf8 38.Bd4 Nd7 39.exf5 exf5 40.Nd3 g4 41.c5 gxh3 42.gxh3 Rg3 43.c6 Rxh3+ >44.Kg2 Rg3+ 45.Kf1 Bd6 46.a5 > ± (0.84) Depth: 18 21:46:30 22282831kN >> >>In other words, is it possible to write a program that is better suited for >>searching to deeper depths if it were given, say, 1 year to search for the best >>move? Or are current algorithms about as good as we're going to get in long term >>analysis? > >I believe that it is possible to design better algorithms and I believe that the >top programmers work about this problem. > >I believe that better algorithms can be made for all time control and not only >for long time control. > >Uri
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