Author: Jan Nyström
Date: 07:38:02 06/08/98
Go up one level in this thread
Hi ! In my other message i fu.... up and deleted some of ed's letter,(sorry) so if u want to read 100 % of the letter try this page..... this computer ........ su.....and......**##¤¤¤¤### :-( Jan :-) On June 08, 1998 at 06:57:29, Vincent Diepeveen wrote: > >And Ed what has happened with your proposal, who joins in? > >Chessbase? >Weiner? > >Greetings, >Vincent > >On June 07, 1998 at 17:22:58, Komputer Korner wrote: > >>On June 06, 1998 at 01:46:07, Ed Schröder wrote: >> >>>>Posted by Jan Nyström on June 05, 1998 at 20:43:01: >>> >>>>Hi ! >>>>In the CCC Opinion Poll about the ssdf rating list, what was the >>>>result? was it 100 % against ssdf ? Some time when i read the e-mails in >>>>ccc, it looks like ewerybody are against fritz and ssdf..... >>>>but the only program i can read about in ccc is fritz...?? >>> >>>>Where are we now in the "ratinglist caos" ??? ask the people >>>>who start the "my program is the no 1 !! no my program is 14,65 points >>>>better.... no way my dosn't use the auto 232 this and that..... >>>>bla... bla... bla....." (MABY SOME OVER REACTION BUT.... :-) ) >>> >>>>what do u Schröder, Lang, etc... think about the ssdf list ? >>> >>>>i want to keep the list !!!!!! >>> >>>Same here Jan. >>> >>>Two weeks ago I sent the below email to the main programmers or people >>>in charge. Since Ossi Weiner in his wisdom decided to quote the whole >>>email to 50-60 people I can better make it public as well. It was an >>>unpleasant experience for me that I did not receive one single reply! >>>Bottom Line, better forget automatic testing. We are going back to the >>>stone age :( >>> >>>I didn't manage, perhaps you the customer can convince them after all >>>I am just a competitor. It's my opinion, without AUTO232 no SSDF and >>>CCL anymore. The latter is 100% true for CCL as I will quit CCL for >>>sure as it makes no sense to me to test Rebel10,11,12... against old >>>and out-dated versions. >>> >>>This doesn't mean *I* will remove auto232 from Rebel10. Rebel 10.0 >>>will support auto232 as usual. I am not so afraid of all the book >>>preparations as it is happening already since day one of SSDF. >>> >>>Here is the group-email... >>> >>>- Ed Schroder - >>> >>>------------------------------------------------ >>>Date: Fri, 22 May 1998 16:33:12 +0200 (CEST) >>>From: Ed Schroder >>>Subject: AUTO232 and SSDF >>>Cc: Marty Hirsch >>> Stefan Meyer Kahlen >>> RICHARD LANG >>> Mark Uniacke >>> Helmut Weigel >>> Ossi Weiner >>> Matth. Wuellenweber >>> Eric Hallsworth >>> Thoralf Karlsson >>> Frederic Friedel >>> >>>Dear colleagues, >>> >>>For the next version of Rebel I will (still) release the program >>>including the possibility of auto232. I hope all of you will do >>>the same. >>> >>>It's my opinion that removing auto232 from our programs will result >>>in a dying or uninteresting SSDF list. The same applies for my own >>>started CCL, I assume you heard of it. >>> >>>It's also my opinion that WE need a list because our customers WANT >>>a list. If there is no list I fear the topic computer chess will >>>slowly die. >>> >>>Bottom line, we have a common interest to keep computer chess alive >>>and healthy and compete with each other. Too many good things has >>>disappeared (or are disappearing), Aegon, Harvard Cup, will there >>>be a WCM this year? I doubt it. This tells people (our customers) >>>that computer chess is dying and they might lose interest with the >>>predictable result, lower sales. >>> >>>So my proposal is let's have a gentleman agreement, we ALL release >>>our next version with auto232. The gentleman agreement is *ONLY* >>>valid if *ALL* have promised by responding on this email with YES, >>>see below. >>> >>>If one (of the list below) doesn't want or does not reply I consider >>>my try as fruitless and there will be no gentleman agreement and >>>everybody simply does what he thinks is best. >>> >>>But I do hope you all will see the importance of the subject as we >>>have a common interest here to cooperate. My vote is a clear YES. >>> >>>Now I can understand the problem you might have with the Fritz5 >>>testing on SSDF. Perhaps you have heard of my official and also >>>public complaints and even that I felt forced to withdrawn from >>>SSDF completely. >>> >>>Also here I like to make a proposal, why don't you Thoralf promise >>>us (the programmers) for the future (a) not to accept auto players >>>that are not public and (b) not to accept special hardware demands >>>again? I am sure that it would help to convince us to say YES to >>>the gentleman agreement. In that case I would be happy to participate >>>on your list again. >>> >>>Below you can sign and then return the email to me or in this group. >>> >>> I agree to the stipulations of this email, >>> >>> Thoralf Karlsson ... >>> Richard Lang ... >>> Stefan Meyer-Kahlen ... >>> Marty Hirsch ... >>> Frans Morsch ... >>> Mark Uniacke ... >>> Chrilly Donninger ... >>> Ed Schroder YES >>> >>>In order to keep this going I want to suggest a deadline of June 1, >>>1998. Before this date I would like you to react to make this >>>gentleman agreement valid. >>> >>>Kind regards, >>> >>>Ed Schroder >>> >>>PS, excluded from the CC-list are Frans and Chrilly as they don't >>>want to receive group email. I trust that Fred and Ossi will make >>>sure they get the message. Also to Eric my request is to ensure >>>that Marc gets the message. >> >>I would like to add that without automatic testing, the progress of >>computer chess slows. Testing a new idea will be horrendous once the old >>programs with autotest drivers become too old to test against. > >This is true, but just think of what Chessbase did. Send in a special >version, and the old version to play it takes many many hundreds of >hours. So where they can develop their program >autoplaying you at x computers without taking them time, >same time, you are busy playing computer versus computer to see >how well your prog is doing. > >Also you can cook against other programs where cooking for your program >takes say 4000 hours manual (for 1000 test games, which otherwise gets >done >in 2 weeks automatically). > >>-- >>Komputer Korner > >Vincent
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