Author: Vincent Diepeveen
Date: 15:03:27 12/14/01
Go up one level in this thread
On December 14, 2001 at 17:41:49, Dann Corbit wrote: >On December 14, 2001 at 17:19:44, Vincent Diepeveen wrote: > >>On December 14, 2001 at 16:48:33, Jorge Pichard wrote: >> >>first of all the strongest top player is judith polgar and >>not zu chen. Judith polgar is world top. Zu Chen may be happy >>if she ever beats me in rapid (i'm 2312 FM but good in rapid, >>have a national title there). >> >>Secondly, i don't see how you can ever organize a match against >>a chinese player. She's from China. Not from US, western europe. >> >>Even organizing a match against an afghani is easier than against >>a chinese who is playing for the chinese national team. >> >>She's god in China. Everything gets dictated by the state. >> >>If she asks someone to get her trainer and he refutes, then >>his head gets cutoff by the chinese government. That's in case >>he's lucky. Because the real punishment is getting forever rotten >>away in a jail without sunlight for refusing trainership for the >>glory of China. THIS IS NO JOKE. In china refusing trainership of someone >>from the chinese team is considered high treachery against the chinese >>people republic. >> >>Further the irrelevant thing is next. Programs win from GM with XXX rating. >>Then next thing is they win from someone with YYY rating but it's higher than >>XXX so obviously a 2500 GM is not exactly interesting from PR viewpoint. >> >>You can get 2700 GMs for $10000 too. In these times they'll be >>all in the line to get $40000. they'll be prepared to even play >>like 3 matches for that money i bet. >> >>$300k is insane much for a 2500. >> >>Only Kasparov and Kramnik are insane that they ask that much as they >>ask. >> >>There are some more plans wasting money. Try www.polgarchess.com >>for something real pathetic. Who's going to pay for these plans? >> >>No one. >> >>Judith Polgar versus a strong chessprogram would be real nice to see. >> >>I would love to play with diep a match. Diep knows at least about >>good and bad bishop and all these world top win game after game against >>programs when they want to because of these simple (and also >>real complex at the same time) positional things, >>where programs cannot play at, but where humans CAN play at. >> >>On paper from that kramnik-fritz match the programmers get like >>half a million dollar too, but i'm 100% convinced braingames puts it >>all in their own pockets and perhaps get some more from chessbase. > >I don't know anything about repression in China, so I cannot address any of >that. We have some ex-chinese team members here in Netherlands, believe me, none of what i wrote about it is a lie. China is real bad. Iraq is hardly worse than that. >What you say is very sensible as far as Judit Polgar's ability (surely the best >woman in the world, and better than most men too). But a publicity stunt does >not look for the best competition. It is looking for the best PR. To beat the >"World Champion" in a match, and you *want* the computer to win -- remember this >is sponsored by hardware company -- you would hope that the world champion is >ELO 2200 by some incredible sequence of flukes. The company surely is not >looking for the best competition. Rather, for the best return on investment. Well if Zu Chen plays some games against different programs at the internet, she'll get ++-- (she white) to --++ (she black) positions all the time against them. From all the 2500 GMs the worst are to pick either Ziatdinov, Zu Chen. v/d Wiel is real weak against computers compared to them, because his normal openings are suicidal against computers. The strong points from Ziatdinov is having 2700+ understanding in chess but some weaknesses where the computer never plays at as it never plays subjective, and Zu Chen for playing closed positions by default where the computer is horrible. Apart from the fact that arranging a match is real hard with someone who plays for the glory of the chinese people republic, and i would find it a political BLUNDER to do so, this would be a real bad deal for any big company as they most likely lose the match at 90 30 level (that is if she only gets paid for winning from it). In short Judith Polgar with her open tactical play is not such a bad option in this context :) The only problem against Judith Polgar is going to be her overall level which is 2686, which no machine gets if she has to win to get money. If you play a super-GM like Polgar you get huge publicity anyway. It would be a major mistake to play a super-GM in a way where she has to let the machine look silly as she only gets paid to win from it, because i am going to predict to you what might happen: a machine that's going to get humiliated like Kasparov did in round 6 in his first match and game 1 in his secondmatch. After that he had like FM level at most against it. Probably below that too as he lost. >The average Joe on the street knows nothing about Judit Polgar or any of the top >Chinese players (the best of which did not even compete for some strange >reason). All they know is what they read on the box. >"This program beat the Women's World Champion!" >They will extrapolate that to mean that the program is better than the best >woman in the world. Really, they are probably happy at the outcome (but with a >small sample of games, the actual ELO is very much in doubt -- who knows how >good she really is?) > >In any case, think about it from the hardware vendor's standpoint. > >Turn it around. Suppose that you plan a match of Diep against the FIDE world >champion. Would you rather face Kasparov or Anand or Khalifman? Surely, you >would hope that the weakest one is champion, because you have a much higher odds >of winning. > >I think if I were Khalifman, I would have milked the title more by playing >against commercial programs for cash. I think it would have been attractive to >both sides for that very reason.
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