Author: Uri Blass
Date: 05:00:18 12/15/01
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On December 15, 2001 at 06:19:39, Thorsten Czub wrote: >this is the game and the passage you want to talk about. you don't like the tal >score of 5.54. Why ? Tal sees a big advantage and gives a high score. >How much is a win worth ? 0.9 pawns ? 0.8 ? 1 pawn ? 2 pawns ? The point is that it is impossible to see a win and it is possible only to guess a win A guess is not something that you can be sure about and it is better to be more careful(+1 for black seems to me more logical) and at least I expect humans to be afraid that the white king may somehow escape Kf2-e1-d2 when the material advantage of white(bishop against 2 pawns) can be decisive. >We talk about chess. what your "chess programs" do is they count the material >and say: 0.8 for black. Is this chess ? I don't think so, your "chess programs" >do not play chess. they emulate it, and they do it very weak. No If you count the material you are going to see that white has a bishop for 2 pawns after capturing e7 so programs consider some positional advantage for black. <snipped> >>+5.54? >>tal seems to be crazy. >>I do not undertand a reason that it is better than 23...Rxe7. >>The opposite Rxe7 that brings the rook into the attack seems to me a better >>move. > >This is YOUR opinion. Hiarcs and CSTal e.g. see it different. The question is: >how to evaluate?? >Black is a pawn in advance. This gives +1.0 for black. Now the programs subtrac >that the white pawn on e7 can be takan and come to +2 pawns. You forgot the fact that white has 2 bishops against 1 bishop of black so by only material it is possible to see bishop for the 2 pawns that is 1 pawn advantage for white. <snipped> >the move is ok. Hiarcs would also play f5. The move may be winning but I do not see why it is better than the game move. <snipped> >>24.Kf2 Bxf3 25.b5 f4 26.exf4 Nf5 27.Ke1 Nd4 28.Qb1 Qg3+ 29.Kd1 exf4 30.Kd2 >> = (-0.18) Depth: 12 00:19:10 339931kN >> >>(Blass, Tel-aviv 15.12.2001) > >as far as i see it yace will play Kf2. > >After 24...Bxf3 it wants to play b5 ??????? 25.b5 loses the game in an instant. >Your program searched for 45 minutes and move 3 of the main line produces a >loser-move ??? after 45 minutes of computation ?? > >uri uri. Maybe you should buy a new machine or another program. > >Hiarcs says +2.17 when i input b5 and says 25...f4 (that was the sense of the >good move f5 before) >and cstal says +9.46 for f4 ! You are right that the main line is wrong but I doubt if the win for black is so easy. This is the reason that I think that +5.54 is too much. +5.54 is right in position that I can be sure in 98% or 99% that I win the game. It does not happen in the position after f5 based on my knowledge. Uri
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