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Subject: Re: Odyssey2001-Tournament: round 11, pairings round 12, new updates: fritz7

Author: Uri Blass

Date: 05:00:18 12/15/01

Go up one level in this thread


On December 15, 2001 at 06:19:39, Thorsten Czub wrote:


>this is the game and the passage you want to talk about. you don't like the tal
>score of 5.54. Why ? Tal sees a big advantage and gives a high score.
>How much is a win worth ? 0.9 pawns ? 0.8 ? 1 pawn ? 2 pawns ?

The point is that it is impossible to see a win and it is possible only to guess
a win

A guess is not something that you can be sure about and it is better to be more
careful(+1 for black seems to me more logical) and at least I expect humans to
be afraid that the white king may somehow escape Kf2-e1-d2 when the material
advantage of white(bishop against 2 pawns) can be decisive.

>We talk about chess. what your "chess programs" do is they count the material
>and say: 0.8 for black. Is this chess ? I don't think so, your "chess programs"
>do not play chess. they emulate it, and they do it very weak.

No

If you count the material you are going to see that white has a bishop for 2
pawns after capturing e7 so programs consider some positional advantage for
black.

<snipped>
>>+5.54?
>>tal seems to be crazy.
>>I do not undertand a reason that it is better than 23...Rxe7.
>>The opposite Rxe7 that brings the rook into the attack seems to me a better
>>move.
>
>This is YOUR opinion. Hiarcs and CSTal e.g. see it different. The question is:
>how to evaluate??
>Black is a pawn in advance. This gives +1.0 for black. Now the programs subtrac
>that the white pawn on e7 can be takan and come to +2 pawns.

You forgot the fact that white has 2 bishops against 1 bishop of black so by
only material it is possible to see bishop for the 2 pawns that is 1 pawn
advantage for white.

<snipped>
>the move is ok. Hiarcs would also play f5.

The move may be winning but I do not see why it is better than the game move.


<snipped>
>>24.Kf2 Bxf3 25.b5 f4 26.exf4 Nf5 27.Ke1 Nd4 28.Qb1 Qg3+ 29.Kd1 exf4 30.Kd2
>>  =  (-0.18)   Depth: 12   00:19:10  339931kN
>>
>>(Blass, Tel-aviv 15.12.2001)
>
>as far as i see it yace will play Kf2.
>
>After 24...Bxf3 it wants to play b5 ??????? 25.b5 loses the game in an instant.
>Your program searched for 45 minutes and move 3 of the main line produces a
>loser-move ??? after 45 minutes of computation ??
>
>uri uri. Maybe you should buy a new machine or another program.
>
>Hiarcs says +2.17 when i input b5 and says 25...f4 (that was the sense of the
>good move f5 before)
>and cstal says +9.46 for f4 !

You are right that the main line is wrong but I doubt if the win for black is so
easy.

This is the reason that I think that +5.54 is too much.
+5.54 is right in position that I can be sure in 98% or 99% that I win the game.

It does not happen in the position after f5 based on my knowledge.

Uri



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