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Subject: Re: program improvements based on weaknesses

Author: Tony Werten

Date: 06:41:15 12/16/01

Go up one level in this thread


On December 15, 2001 at 23:24:45, Robert Hyatt wrote:

>On December 15, 2001 at 18:07:08, José Carlos wrote:
>
>>On December 15, 2001 at 17:34:28, Robert Hyatt wrote:
>>
>>>On December 15, 2001 at 12:30:07, Will Singleton wrote:
>>>
>>>>On December 15, 2001 at 11:44:53, Robert Hyatt wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>On December 15, 2001 at 03:12:43, K. Burcham wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>if some here say that they dont want to play against someone that
>>>>>>is moving manually (changes time to move during game),
>>>>>>then it seems that the program time control could be improved for an increase in
>>>>>>strength.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>That isn't the issue.  It is "human interference" that is the issue.  A fully
>>>>>automatic program (on a chess server) has to make _all_ decisions by itself.
>>>>>How much time to use, when to think longer, when to play quicker, etc.  A
>>>>>manually operated program will have help.  And with a good human operator,
>>>>>that help can be the "edge" needed to beat an automatic program.  IE when
>>>>>the program finds a move that the human is sure is "ok" he can hit "move
>>>>>now" and save time.  Or even prevent the program from thinking longer and
>>>>>switching to a "worse" move.
>>>>>
>>>>>time usage isn't really the issue, it is "outside help".
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>That's true, but both the "move now" button and the "don't make that stupid
>>>>move" button can be used even on a fully automatic program.  Can't control for
>>>>that.
>>>>
>>>>But I do think it's important to kib analysis, for later study.
>>>>
>>>>Will
>>>
>>>
>>>How would you say "don't make that move"??
>>
>>  If you use an automatic interface you wrote yourself, you could implement
>>anything you want, for example 'next best during search' button. Even under
>>winboard you can send commands to the engine, so it is easy to cheat, I'm
>>afraid. You can have in your program (not you of course, yours is open source,
>>but anyone else) some commands for 'move now', 'add n seconds to search this
>>move', 'pv move is bad, try something else', ... And just send the right command
>>trough winboard during the search.
>>
>>  José C.
>>
>
>
>
>That's not quite the same, for this discussion.   IE as a manual operator,
>I can either manually let it search longer if I don't like a move, or I can
>force it to try something else and if the analysis shows it isn't a blunder,
>that move gets played.

When my program plays under winboard, the windows interface still can be made
visible. I could also put it in analyses mode and just use a "move now" button.
Not really different from a manual operator.

Tony

>
>Just saying "play second best" seems dangerous and certainly less effective.



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